142 responses so far ↓

• 1 JustADude // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:31 am

  Emory.edu
  Go to administration tab then office of the president for email contacts plus snail mail and phone numbers.

• 2 JustADude // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:32 am

  http://www.emory.edu/PRESIDENT/

  Direct link to the page you need

• 3 Gary Johnson // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:35 am

  Actually the chant went like this:

  “Racist Sexist Anti-Gay, David Horowitz Go Away!”

• 4 Dean // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:38 am

  Thanks Gary- corrected.

• 5 Mark Sears // Oct 25, 2007 at 12:17 pm

  This post was incorrect in suggesting that the students or Emory’s campus was to blame. The protestors were not Emory students, but adults not affiliated with Emory’s campus–this made me clear. Stop distorting the facts to try to validate in an invalid argument!

• 6 Greg Vincent // Oct 25, 2007 at 12:55 pm

  Sears, do you read? Read the sentence after this sentence: “It was amazing to watch.” above. Typical deflection by a leftist….or are you a muslim…..maybe a student?!

• 7 Mukhtar // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:10 pm

  You’ll all be surprised to find that most of the Muslims in the room (and there were a lot of them) were sitting down quietly and respectfully. And they all did this to allow him to speak.

  The people who were protesting were either extreme left old fogies who have no role in life except to cause disruption or actual students at Emory who were a part of the “Communist Youth Brigade.” However, the majority of the room definitely wanted to let him speak.

• 8 Richard Romano // Oct 25, 2007 at 1:38 pm

  Sears is emoting — fly off the handle first, then neglect to apologize later…typical leftist trick, galvanized by an irresponsible and hysterical MSM.

• 9 Rizwaan // Oct 25, 2007 at 2:59 pm

  “The Leftists and Muslims both joined to harass David Horowitz. Both Leftists and Muslims were standing with their backs to Horowitz until the talk was cancelled.”

  let’s just start labeling and condemning everyone. why not address how both white and black people were standing? men and women? young and old?

  you’re a bigot and your intentions are transparent.

• 10 Johnny Katenberg // Oct 25, 2007 at 3:40 pm

  Little do these leftists realize, the muslims will chop their heads off first. Gays, those who have sex outside of marriage are hung or stoned in Iran.

• 11 fall // Oct 25, 2007 at 4:07 pm

  “let’s just start labeling and condemning everyone. why not address how both white and black people were standing? men and women? young and old?

  you’re a bigot and your intentions are transparent.”

  I noticed it took you all of 3 sentences to start slapping labels on others. So you’re a transparent bigot too?

• 12 lola // Oct 25, 2007 at 6:11 pm

  Yes, there were boos and there was ONE Nazi salute when he was introduced. There was never any chanting of Heil Hitler, only one person in the back of the room who called this out once. Its is interesting how the truth gets twisted. Anyone who does not believe this is welcome to search the youtube videos and try to prove me wrong.

  And what is the harm in a gesture that is not obscene anyway? Why be offended so badly by one or two Nazi salutes if you know that what you are presenting is going to be very unpolular with a good portion of the crowd? David Horowitz and the Campus Republican need to thicken up their skin a bit!

  Also, the chanting that was mentioned about ‘racist, sexist, anti-gay…’ did not occure while he was speaking but rather after he had left the stage to consult with others about what to do. There was also some chanting of ‘this is what democracy looks like’ during this same period. Since no one was speaking at this time, what is the harm?

  The above article butchers the truth of what happened last night. Yes, the protesters were disrespectful. Yes David Horowitz was repeatedly interupted - the videos show this, too. Yes the event was shut down. Yes there were people who were disapoint on both the left and the right. No need to exagerate here. Let’s get to some of what the article did not say:

  The event was not shut down untill the protesters where told that if they did not sit down they would be removed. At that point a lot of the people in the audience who where not with the protesters stood up in support of the protesters.

  Even though I was not going to stand with them and wanted to hear what he had to say, I stood up too because I feel that they had the right to stand up if they wanted to. No real harm in that.

  It was outrageous that the solution put forward was calling in the police to remove the people that were standing. I was told that if I did not leave or sit down that I would be arrested and I remained standing in support of the right to free expression - which is what Horowitz claims to represent. The police, however, never came.

  Also, it was David Horowitz chose not to continue. He chose to respond to hecklers rather than ignore them and move on. Anyone who has taken a basic speach class knows that is the wrong approach since it only empowers the hecklers. His behaviour was very unprofessional and he engaged in throwing insults from the stage further exciting the protesters. He was as much a part of shutting it down as anyone else that was there. I was very disapointed in him and his actions do nothing for his cause any more than the actions of the liberals who protested him.

  However, when it was annouced that the event was called off, eveyone left peacefully and Islamic people held signs in the hallway - silently - as people left.

  And, btw yes the Islamic people who where there sat quietly and a couple held up signs - in the back of the room.

  Lola

• 13 Mike // Oct 25, 2007 at 6:24 pm

  well, Lola, we were apparently not at the same David Horowitz event at Emory University. The protestors standing were a majority of the people trying to shout down David Horowitz DURING his speech. There was absolutely NOTHING peaceful about their demonstration. Had it been standing and nothing else I would have been fine with it. It is when they felt their uneducated, ignorant opinion was more important and needed to be heard by uninterested ears.

• 14 lola // Oct 25, 2007 at 6:26 pm

  Johnny wrote:

  “Little do these leftists realize, the muslims will chop their heads off first. Gays, those who have sex outside of marriage are hung or stoned in Iran”

  Leftist have some problems, some serious ones but to characterize all Muslims as people who would chop off their heads is just as bad as characterizing all Christians as sickos that will execute Gays or characterizing all white people as red-necks who would lench black people if they had half a chance. There is a lot of variation in Islam and David Horowitz recognizes that and did recognize it in the few minutes that he got to speak at Emory.

  Also, most liberals that I have talked to have no love for Islamic extreemist and in no way support Islamic dictatorships but rather want to see secular govenments in these countries while also opposing the war - which they consider a bloodbath - thus the pictures.

  Also, David Horowitz does not uphold Bush or his war and thinks that it is wrong - so the posters were kind of a silly statement and a sign of lack of reading the opposing points of view.

  You do have to know what someone says to actually be critical of it in any way! So, Johnny, read up or you are doing no better than the liberals did!

  

  Lola

• 15 lola // Oct 25, 2007 at 6:31 pm

  Mike,

  Obviously you did not understand what I wrote.

  Yes, there were disruptive hecklers and they became more disruptive the more David Horowitz engaged and empowered them. It was a mistake to do that.

  The whole mess could have been avoided if the first few hecklers would have been removed - especially that old lady down front who I think stood up first and the guy that yelled out at the beginning. There were quite a few protesters who remained silent. If they disruptive ones had been removed rather than engaging them as he did then it is quite possible that I and others could have actually heard what he has to say.

• 16 lola // Oct 25, 2007 at 6:47 pm

  Mike,

  One thing you said that I forgot to mention - yes, it was nasty during the event but what I said was:

  “However, when it was annouced that the event was called off, eveyone left peacefully and Islamic people held signs in the hallway - silently - as people left.”

  Note that I did not say that the event was peaceful but rather that people left peacefully - that is they were not taken by force from the room by police officers which is implied in the article by the statement that “even the police present were unable to subdue the crowd.”

  As you know from being there, there was ONE campus police officer standing at the left back door to the room. There was maby two more outside. They did not try to subdue the crowd in any way. That is why I made the comment that the people left peacefully. See?

• 17 senor doeboy // Oct 25, 2007 at 7:03 pm

  Only confirms my thoughts about the value of an Emory degree. Guess my circular file will get some new resumes from the Alumni of Emory.

• 18 Joe // Oct 25, 2007 at 8:01 pm

  Lola,
  First of all, you stated “what is the harm in a gesture that is not obscene anyway? Why be offended so badly by one or two Nazi salutes if you know that what you are presenting is going to be very unpolular with a good portion of the crowd? ”
  Maybe you are not aware of what this symbol respresents. Heil Hitler isn’t a harmless gesture. It stands for the slaughter of millions of people. Just because what he is saying may be unpopular with SOME people, doesn’t mean that a symbol of hate is in order.

  I also attended this event to hear the speach, but was unable, and the fact that people left the auditorim peacefully does not make up for what took place inside.

  You also said: “Also, it was David Horowitz chose not to continue. He chose to respond to hecklers rather than ignore them and move on.”
  In fact, Horowitz did attempt to ignore them and continue. However, people were being so rude and disrespectful that he was unable to. I was embarrassed to just be in a room with such immature “adults.”

  “There is a lot of variation in Islam and David Horowitz recognizes that and did recognize it in the few minutes that he got to speak at Emory.”

  Not only is this completely wrong, but the very first thing that Horowitz said was “Anyone here to hear a diatribe or attacks about Muslims is in the wrong place.”

  As students, we are supposed to learn and be open to new ideas. Not allowing him to speak prevented everyone in the room from doing so. What I found most amusing was when the crowd chanted “this is what deomcracy looks like.” Democracy means that all people have the right to express their opinion, even if others don’t agree. What the protestors were demonstrating was facism, the very thing that Horowitz was speaking out against.

• 19 lola // Oct 25, 2007 at 9:44 pm

  Joe,

  It was never my intent to imply that leaving peaceful makes up for what they did. What I was pointing out is the distortion in the article quoted above which implies a struggle between the police and the protesters that did not occure. The article is full of distortions and is itself shameful considering that there was plenty that actually happened to talk about!

  You also said:
  “Not only is this completely wrong, but the very first thing that Horowitz said was ‘Anyone here to hear a diatribe or attacks about Muslims is in the wrong place.’”

  This is exactly what I was talking about! David Horowitz is not against Islam and draws the distinction between Islam and Islamo-Facism.

  He was very clear about that from the start and he exposed the fascist behaviour of the extreemist who want or have religious run states which is a very dangerous thing. Its interesting that the leftist in the crowd never heard that or did not want to and claimed that this was an attack on Muslims. Even when he talked about the crime of genital mutilation he was jeered! Truth is truth, no matter who’s mouth it comes out of and lies are lies.

  I just hope that the writers will at least be more objective but I have a feeling that too many people are more interested in expressing ‘views’ than what is true.

  I seriously wonder if any of the protesters actually had read anything on Front Page Mag or if they had only read leftist opinions of David Horowitz.

  Also, my point about the Nazi salute - expect this kind of thing! It happens and it was not the worst of it or anything like what was described in the artical. As I said, it was one or maby two people who did this but the article makes a chant out of one person yelling “heil hitler” and implies that quite a few people, not one or two, gave the Nazi salute.

  Lets be honest here!

• 20 Velvet Hammer // Oct 25, 2007 at 11:37 pm

  If only they would of shut their mouths long enough to listen, they may have had a chance to learn something.
  But no, leftist radicals prefer to act out like a bunch of anarchist hellions instead. Much more productive. /sarc What ever happened to civilized discourse and debate?

  Disgraceful and disrespectful. Little fascists screaming over David Horowitz , taking away his freedom of speech. But oh my God, do not take theirs away. That will just not do.

  Great blog you all have. Happy to have found you. You were mentioned on Bill Reilly’s show a bit ago. So I had to have a look.

• 21 ProudEagle // Oct 26, 2007 at 12:04 am

  While I wish that more restraint (and respect) was shown, Horowitz thrives off of this kind of response. He knows it will happen. He incites it. And all the wonderful bloggers who like to use terms like “Leftist” and “Islamists” when referring to liberals and Muslims do nothing to help.

• 22 Watergate // Oct 26, 2007 at 12:31 am

  Horowitz “was as much a part of shutting it down as anyone else that was there.”

  Typical leftist BS moral equivalency. Rude, thuggish pigs constantly interrupt a speaker. Speaker responds. To a leftist, both are equally to blame.

  Why are so many leftists self-indulgent twerps? They don’t want to hear Horowitz, then they shouldn’t show up. But, they are so convinced of their absolute moral goodness, and the infinite evil of their opponents, that those opponents must not merely be countered, but silenced.

  “He incites it.” Yep - by not agreeing with immature leftists, he incites remarkably infantile behavior. Everyone knows that unless you pander to the leftists, they will whine and cry until you give them what they want.

• 23 Gary Johnson // Oct 26, 2007 at 12:50 am

  Look, I support what Horowitz was doing…I was there drove a 110 miles both ways to witness the spectacle. Lola is absolutely right. There was no subduing of a crowd. The protest was a silent passive one. Horowitz was not helping his cause, he wanted to get run off the stage. I think he assumed the black muslim element would get angrier and the racial stirs of his past would be brought up. The crowd was vocal. But all he had to do was stop egging them - answering them. The moment people were yelling, he started calling them leftists, he even referred to the IQ dropping every time one woman yelled an outrageous slogan at an odd off moment.

  All in all, I lost a lot of faith in Horowitz as a leader. I think his ideas are great. I think his IFAW was a wonderful idea to expose the concept to a public that seems to be comatose regarding the threat of Islamism. I personally agree with his stance on women’s rights. Call me kooky but I don’t like the idea of 130 million women having their genitals mutilated. I don’t like the idea of being caned or stoned for extra marital sex. I don’t like the fact that women are considered criminals if they are raped. I don’t like the fact that women are treated as sex slaves or slaves in any way. Call me an old fashioned Freedom loving American Romantic, but it seems to me that this country was created to stop things of this nature from happening. And even if it wasn’t the laws that it has created since its inception make the case for that reality of freedom. No one seems to be paying attention to the merits of the week - everyone is paying attention to the nature of the protestors of the week long event. There is a real and dangerous enemy lurking in the dark. It is not a boogey man. It is an Islamist agenda that must be destroyed. We must mine at the base of the jihad pillar subterranean. We need the help of the youth. But perhaps the youth of America are not the right ones to be targeting. perhaps who Horowitz needs to target are 25 to 35 year old College Graduates with families and something to lose.

  The goal of this week was simple. Awareness. In that Horowitz was successful. But I think he lost a great deal of momentum in Emory. I may be wrong. his book sales might spike. But he lost my weight. And that may be a shrug of his shoulders. But I think it a tragedy.

• 24 Mike // Oct 26, 2007 at 2:46 pm

  In retrospect, as a Republican student at Emory, what happened could quite possibly be even better than what would have happened had David Horowitz been able to continue his speech. Don’t get me wrong, I am still angry that I was denied the opportunity to hear from someone I had been looking forward to all month, but this has caused everyone I know who knew nothing about the topic at all to research to to “see what all the fuss is about.” Horowitz is still accomplishing his mission here as most are going to frontpagemag.com to read Horowitz’s opinions, but most of all, they think even less of the hypocritical liberals.

• 25 yusuf // Oct 26, 2007 at 2:59 pm

  lola wrote

  “This is exactly what I was talking about! David Horowitz is not against Islam and draws the distinction between Islam and Islamo-Facism”

  What you talking about. Horowitz is dead against Islam the emblem of peace in the world. He attacks the basic tenets of Islam the only true religeon delivered by god Allah to mankind to follow. No one has the right to raise a finger against Islam the only truith in universe. How dare you call them islamo-facist. They are fighting to establish muslim god allah’s
  commandment in this world. They are the Mujahadin, army of god. Remember, islam begins where Nazi and communism failed and it delivered from heaven.

• 26 Freedom of Speech? Only for some! - Political Hotwire // Oct 26, 2007 at 4:07 pm

  […] was shut down.

• 27 lola // Oct 26, 2007 at 7:20 pm

  Yusef,

  Might sound funny but I have a problem with anything that claims to be the final everlasting revealed truth and all religions can be found to have been used as the justification for crimes against humanity. Every religion and subcatagory of religion believes that it is the one true way and that all others are wrong.

  It is hard to deny that people have been burned, hung or decapated for opposing this or that Cristian way down through history and woman in islamic countries have been executed, have had their genitals sliced off, forced to wear constricting garb and so on.

  In this situation both Bush and those around him and the extreemist Islamists are doing things that are horribly wrong - that are not going to solve the situation but rather intensify it.

• 28 Infidel // Oct 27, 2007 at 2:36 pm

  The chant is a hoot.

  If ANY group/cult is “racist, sexist, anti-gay”, it’s the Islamists.

  Remember when Ahm-mad-bout-jihad” said there are no homosexuals in iran as there are in the US and the crowd hooted.

  Islamist subjugation of women is not sexist? Forcing women to wear the black sacks for their “protection” is like forcing black people to sit in the back of the bus for their “protection”.

  Just watch arab TV, arab newpaper depictions of Jews for racism that rivals that of the klan and the naztional Socialists.

  “Progressively Mentally Ill” are so blinded by their ideology they can’t believe their own eyes. “Progressively Mentally Ill” types believe the Emperors new clothes are “beautiful”.

• 29 Gray // Oct 29, 2007 at 2:29 pm

  What an embarrassment. These same students would have allowed Ahmedinejad to speak, no problem. What Mr. Horowitz was trying to speak of is the truth. He does not condemn Islam, but he does condemn the growing version that is trying to convert the world and practices barbaric laws and traditions. The rest of the world has evolved, leaving radical Islam behind.

• 30 Gray // Oct 29, 2007 at 2:34 pm

  Yusef.

  You are exactly why Horowitz needs to be allowed to speak.

• 31 Education101 // Oct 29, 2007 at 2:46 pm

  This happens because it’s allowed by leftists who are not interested in democratic education but communist ideology. Leftists rule the roost what do people expect.

• 32 JFB // Oct 29, 2007 at 3:14 pm

  Shame on both Emory and the organizers who booked Mr. Horowitz to speak for failing to eject the protesters from the room, so he could complete his talk.

• 33 Russ // Oct 29, 2007 at 3:17 pm

  Unbelievable, this is what my grandfather died for? I believe in the right for all to express an opinion but when one side shuts it down for the sake of doing just that. Cheapens the sacrifice made by all who have fought and / or died for this nation. I’ve seen the Neo Nazi’s march in Skokie Il., and they were able to excercise their rights better than David was able too. Lola, there are no innocent bystanders. If you are, then your liberties will not last, and you’ll wonder why somebody else didn’t defend them for you. One last rant, I’ve seen the good and bad in Islam, like anything too much of a good thing can be bad for you.

• 34 writerman // Oct 29, 2007 at 3:35 pm

  I can’t help wondering why these “students” are wasting their time and their parents’ money on college.

  College is for learning, and learning is about listening, usually to people with more experience than you. AFTER you hear what the speaker has to say, it’s up to you to evaluate it all and decide what, if anything, you want to remember.

  Those who choose to shout down speakers whose views might be different are not there to learn. Their minds are made up, so they should get out of those highly-coveted STUDENT positions and get on with their lives.

  Perhaps a few years in the school of hard knocks would get their attention.

• 35 JD // Oct 29, 2007 at 3:50 pm

  ******* all liberals who infest America!

  [Edited by The Office Of the President]

• 36 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 29, 2007 at 4:37 pm

  What has happened to our country? When a bunch of protesters (more like undisciplined screaming whining children) are allowed into an academic conference and are allowed to create such chaos by refusing to let an invited guest speaker actually speak? (Yes Horowitz needed to handle it differently.) It never should of come up as having to handle it at all. Talk about a total disregard and lack of respect for anybody other than for themselves. Their parents and grandparents would be so ashamed of them all.

  If the protesters want to talk, let them create their own academic conference and invite a crowd to listen. Oh excuse me, probably because no one really gives a shit what the protesters want to say. That’s why they are interrupting Horowitz academic conference… How sad what our new crop of college kids has become. ( A bunch of spoiled crying babies.) We are in dire straights indeed if this is what the next generation is all about. We need real men and women to defend this country. Not whiney assed babies. We need real men and women to protect us against all threats. Foreign and Domestic.

  Let’s let all the protesters like this “Stand In Front” of our military men and women. Let’s see if these protestors can protect the rest of us good people against the terrorists extremist physically trying to harm us all and lets see if their whiney assed words will protect them from the bad guys with the guns and machetes. Only here in America can this type of vocal expression happen. No where else in the world would it be allowed.

  What a country!

• 37 Jc // Oct 29, 2007 at 4:52 pm

  First, I do not know, nor do I care who Horowitz is. I just happened upon this article and after reading it decided that I wanted to know what others think.

  I was sofaking wrong in that decision.

  Religion is the basis of everything and anything that is evil….. If there were such a thing as the “devil” it would most certainly manifest itself in the human form carrying a book depicting how the human race should live. It would most likely live in some sort of castle… probably one that was not only tax-free but didnt pay for the construction as well. The funding would come from those weak minded enough to shovel forth the cash in exchange for “salvation”. Then it would top itself off with being the all knowing, all powerful, end all solution by which all others are false and condemnable. Anyone questioning this ” religion” would most likely be murdered, abused, burned, nailed to a cross, persecuted, and basically dehumanized. The entire religion would of course be designed to work for those that “invented” it. Yeah, I said invented.. nail me to a cross why dont you. Either you believe in a higher power or you believe in yourself, just dont be pissed off when one of ” gods ” creations craps on your face.

  I was watching a discovery program with some friends (christians) the other day. One of them said ” They need to read the bible, their whole existence would be so much simpler once they accepted him into their lives. He would be able to help them get out of the rainforest and into “real life”.”

  Average religious person, if they dont believe and wont convert, well…. their going to go to hell.

  I myself am not religious at all, unless you consider eating, sleeping, and crapping a religion. I just live for me, my family, and my friends. I can see them, I can touch them, and I can hear them. That way, instead of putting my faith in “god” and wasting time “praying/wishing” what needs to be done is done and what isnt will happen another day.

  GOOGLE IT PEOPLE:
  Religion is the number one killer of humans and animals since the beginning of time (near when “evolution” started) believe it or not.

  So get on your religious high horse and tell me exactly where I am wrong, how I am going to die and not see any heaven or virgins or whatever else your religion depicts as your ” reward” for being a good follower, after all isnt that the point of religion, to get something in return? Or no, wait, its to….. crap, I forget, whats the point in beliving that an imaginary being in the sky will torment us for all eternity… oh yea thats right its so the more intelligent can thrive off the fear of the weak.

  F GOD, ALLAH, BUDDA, ELRON, etc.

• 38 SD // Oct 29, 2007 at 4:59 pm

  Writerman,
  You’re right, college is place for higher learning. and learning is about listening. The sad thing is that some of these young impressionable minds can be can be manipulated or even brain washed by SOME of the far left professors who uses the students to work their agenda.

• 39 michael // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:01 pm

  of course the muslims are there. they dont say nothing about terrorism.until they get there education,go back, and work for the terrorists.like bin ladden.but what is being pumped into these students heads. do they know what its like to live there. communists teachers dont teach that. just hate the united states. well hillary is here with socialism. and so is 50% of our pay cheak. good job commies.

• 40 SD // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:07 pm

  JC,
  You have your opinion and I respect it. I on the other hand has had first hand experience on the power of prayer. I do not preach and I do not talk about it to others unless they are interested and then I will open up.
  It’s sad when God has created something so perfect (Jesus), but it took man to ruined it. Don’t blame God when man screws it up.

• 41 michael // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:13 pm

  what these students need ? is to go over there friendly, loving country,and live there for a while. they spit words out, just like socialists being led by the nose,only hearing the liberal owned news. how about the millions of free iraq people able to vote,walk down the street without ending up in a shreader.

• 42 DJD // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:21 pm

  Students:

  You are sheeps to a slaughter and don’t even know it. Keep it up with your denial of truth and embracing an enemy who wants to kill you.All this is going to hit you like a bolt of lightning. Don’t claim first amendment rights as you are giving them away.
  You are deserving of these rights, but you wipe your ass with them. You in turn deserve what you will get for praising your enemys. You will be trampled under. Peace, Love, Dove don’t get it, you are not reliving the 1960’s.
  You will reap the harvests of your hatred of your home. Your moral compass has been removed, and you only love yourselves. So be it!

• 43 michael // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:22 pm

  proud veteren women. thanks for your patriotic service ! there are no words i can say to explain how proud of all of you guys and gals. thanks again.

• 44 Jc // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:24 pm

  SD,

  I hate to say it, but your failure to bring the message of your religion to others without prompting, i.e. “unless they are interested” is a major fault on your part. You my dear would be condemned by your own flock. I am glad that you have experienced the power of placebo/prayer. The suggestion that ones self can be helped or healed by truly believing in something is remarkable, no doubt. According to your believing in christ, your last statement you yourself are condemning jewish people which by definition is against human rights and anti-christian in itself.

  Keep them coming people.

  I will keep the stable open all week.

• 45 michael // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:26 pm

  just think about the parents who are paying 30 thousand plus a year,for there children to turn on there country.

• 46 Sargie01 // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:34 pm

  People can protest whatever they want. However when someone is invited to speak you should treat them with respect , unless of course it’s Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Then everyone cheers. Perfectly understandable, you cheer for someone who kills gays in their country, by stoning them to death in the streets. Do any of you people read? I actually find this extremely frightening. Lola this is strictly to you….. I quote “And what is the harm in a gesture that is not obscene anyway?” referring to the Nazi salutes. Why don’t you ask that question to Isaiah Washington or Don Imus, or the people who made the BIG deal about the Rebel Flag. Why didn’t those people just thicken up their skin? Wait it’s OK to make some comments, but only if you agree. Understood. I have an idea to, why don’t you drive around town with your middle finger in the air and see how many people don’t mind the gesture.
  Whether or not you agree with the war, we are at war and war isn’t pretty and you can’t say “only bomb the bad people.” By the way why don’t all the protester’s write the troops a note and thank them for your freedom
  You can all thank the soldiers over sea fighting for your right to protest, hence free speech.

• 47 Jc // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:35 pm

  Final Note:

  People always always ask me:

  ” Hey, why aren’t you religious?”

  The Simple Answer:

  I have eyes, ears, and a brain. I can see a system of controlling humans when its written in a book, spoken from a pupit, chanted at a mass, or handed down from ancestors. Its all the same thing, I need money for god, and if you do what I say, I will bring you into my heaven.

• 48 Greta // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:43 pm

  Well, this has been really enlightening. It seems that these ‘children’ weren’t brought up right. What happened to common courtesy, to being polite to your elders? To just show the courtesy you would show a homeless person on the street? Mr. Horowitz was an invited guest of the school, and as such, he should have been received at least with politeness, it not open armed hugs. I wonder if a guest in your home would be treated the same way: would you scream at them or shun them simply because they happen to have a different opinion than your.

  As to the Nazi salute issue, maybe the educated of you might recognize that Horowitz is a Jewish name. . . and millions of Jewish people as well as 1.5 million Christians, were murdered by the Nazis. (Neichiists). As often as a person of Jewish decent might see that sign, and have people call them names, it never would be anything but a shock, expecially if you are an invited guest on a well known university.

  You kids want to be treated as adults, however, until you are willing to interact like adults in basicly adults situations, how can a grown-up trust you or respect your opinions? As it is, once you leave the ivory halls of college, you’ll run into a lot of people you don’t necessary agree with: are you going to attack a person on your job if they have a different opinion on ‘global warming’ than you? Are you going to scream at a fellow employee because they like to eat meat instead of being a veggan? Are you going to clobber someone if they just happen to be a different politcal affiliations? That’s why there are two political parties in this country. . . if there weren’t we’d just be another communist nation.

  A friend of mine who was educated in England told me some years ago that ‘debate’ and ‘rational thinking’ were not taught in the US schools. I tend to agree with him. It may just be up to you who really want to learn and grow into adults to work on these issues. Emotion is the antithesis of Learning. Rationality is the opposite of Emotion. Liberalism is basically emotion running rampant.

  Let’s hope that learning isn’t just picking up a book and memorizing. . . if that’s it, then all that money your parents are spending is being wasted. You could stay home, save them a lot of money and do an on-line course to get your brain cells working.

  (by the way, I’m an ‘older’ person who is a Sop at a local university, and I’m holding a 3.8 GPA) You have to balance education with reality. Knowledge without discipline is nothing.

• 49 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 5:43 pm

  This disgusts me. My grandfather was a career military man, and he’d have had a stroke if he saw this! I remember my own leftist ignorance during High School, when I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance because I hated what America had become. I never forgot the hurt and anger in his eyes when he found out. I decided then and there that I would pledge allegiance to all that this nation was founded on and would fight against the corruption that has been eating away at our nation for the past 50 years. I can speak with authority not only that Muslims are not evil, but that the fanatics that Horowitz spoke of are a minority. I should know because I’m in love with a Muslim woman from IRAN of all places! If these leftists want to protest against a man who is against a repeat performance of the Holocaust on a grander, bloodier, and more disturbing scale—IN THE NAME OF GOD!–then perhaps they should do a bit of homework during their off time. You know… when they’re not yelling at speakers, or chasing people around with fake blood on their hands. They claim to be exercising their Constitutional rights? They VIOLATE the rights of others! They protest against persecution? They persecute! If they shut people down who draw a firm line between Muslims and Islamo-fascists, they’re not only doing your own little part in destroying Democracy–which is built on freedom of speech and expression FOR ALL PEOPLE, not just them. The leftists are enabling the Islamo-fascists by silencing their opposition. These terrorists don’t just kill Jews and Christians. They kill Muslims too! They’re far beyond insane. They think they’re God’s right hand, and that elitist mentality justifies crimes that are beyond anything you have ever seen or imagined. But hey! What do I know? I’m just a computer technician with an Iranian girlfriend. I couldn’t POSSIBLY know a damned thing about what I’m talking about! No! Not me. I don’t even have a vested interest in learning the truth of such matters. Not when I still want to cry when I see pictures of the World Trade Center, and I want with all my heart to bring this precious woman here where she won’t have to fear being raped, tortured and murdered because she’s in love with me too! But hey! You leftists go right ahead and portray me as a traitor and a terrorists, alright? While you’re at it, take some of the real blood that’s being shed by these Islamo-fascists and chase government officials with THAT on your hands. I’m sure Bin-Laden will be waiting at the door with moist towelettes.

• 50 Concerned // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:10 pm

  +1 Technician.

  i cannot still cannot believe what my eyes and ears are showing/telling me when i watch a video like this. these people should want to listen to all sides of a debate before making a decision on who they will believe. people like this don’t want to believe that terrorists will kill as many of us as possible until it actually happens. unfortunately it is too late at that point for pointing fingers to undo the death and carnage. we cannot let that happen. we must listen to everything and educate ourselves in all things pertaining to these terrorists so that we can _act_ accordingly. people like these students in the video are not only annoying but DANGEROUS as well. their attitude of dismissing, and even, shouting out someone who might have good information will not only be something to regret in the future but it will be the cause of much morning and regret. the biggest immediate threat we face as a nation is not any foreign army or influence; it is people like these students who are a growing influence. they want everybody to believe that everything is sunshine and lollipops and that we are the big-bad aggressors in the world. they need to wake up and realize that there are people who will kill you just because of where you were born. i would much rather be fighting then in their country than our own.

• 51 Kirk // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:15 pm

  It is hard for me to convey the shock and dismay I feel in reading the story and watching the video from a liberal arts university for which I used to have great respect.

  My Hungarian father fled fascist Italy with my American born mother in 1941, having seen mob action not unlike this. When they arrived at his mother-in-law’s apartment, he heard a radio commentator raking FDR over the coals. He turned to my mother and asked if the man would be arrested and shot. She reassured him that we had free speech here and that the commentator was absolutely free to voice his opinion. He later told me that prior to that time he had never heard commercial radio, since everywhere he had lived, the government owned the radio stations, and comment had to toe the government line.

  Thank God Emory wasn’t in charge of mass communications then. How ccan any professor there not stand up and teach - with a straight face - any course in philosophy, journalism or constitutional law? Has the Emory administration spoken out or otherwise dealt with this outrage?

• 52 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:32 pm

  Concerned,

  Amen brother! I’m glad the first response to my post was a good one. I gotta tell ya, people like those students scare me, and you were quite eloquent in stating WHY! However, I’ll go further and state my opinion as to how we might remedy this situation, as these students are a SYMPTOM of a greater problem. Leftists have infiltrated the government, universities, and even public schools and are slowly eroding away our rights under the Constitution and are selling our sovereignty, our security, our technology, and our land right out from under us, while painting a pretty picture of a global (communist?) community where there is no hate and no poverty. the usurping of our rights to freedom of speech, of religious expression, and even to bear arms is only the beginning. If we’re too blind and lazy to see what’s happening and do something to save our great nation, the next–and last—question we need to ask ourselves is who do we want to take us over? Islamo-fascists, or Communists? One is on the other side of the world, but the other is already here among us. Remember the Communist Manifesto? How do you overthrow a government and turn a nation Communist? First, you get to the children and indoctrinate them in the belief that there is no external governor of ethics and law, i.e. God, and they define their own morality, you take over the media, then you undermine the justice system, which slowly but surely breaks down the society. Finally, you send in revolutionaries to either convert or completely overthrow the government, and the people, which by that time have been thoroughly brainwashed, will become willing and eager participants in the establishment of the new regime. What do we see now, eh? It seems that an awful lot of students are thinking they evolved from monkeys and are becoming gods, and thus only answer to themselves, and silence anybody who advocates an externally introduced moral code that conflicts with their own desires. They’re not only in universities. They’re in government offices too. Hmm… What do you think would happen if we’re hit with another attack the size of the 9/11 attacks? Seems somebody’s following the Manifesto!

  Well, now that I’ve increased the sphincter factor to a good 7.5, let’s see if people can do something about it.

• 53 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:34 pm

  Thank you Michael. I appreciate that more than you know.

  You are right about parents not wanting to spend that kind of money on their kids education. especially if they knew what they were being taught in college. A lot of the newer professors use their classrooms for recruiting and creating liberals… At that point we parents just pray and hope we brought up our kids with enough good sense and good morals and honor that hopefully they can think for themselves. Hopefully they can see these people for what they really are.

• 54 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:38 pm

  Mukhtar,
  I have one question for you. You stated that there were many Muslims in the majority in the room who wanted to hear what Mr. Horowitz had to say… why then, if the MAJORITY wanted to hear, why did no one stand up and speak up for FREEDOM OF SPEECH for the INVITED speaker/guest?
  It baffles my mind that a majority will allow a vocal, disruptive minority to rule the day.
  I would expect more intestinal fortitude from a majority than sitting in silence while chaos runs an invited speaker off stage.
  Did it not upset any of the “majority” that THEIR rights to listen, learn, show curtesy and maybe even agree on some of Mr. Horowitz’ views were circumvented by a bunch of anti-freedom fools?

• 55 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:38 pm

  Oh! I almost forgot the good news! I just saved a buttload on car insurance by nailing a gecko to the hood of my truck!

  Seriously though, we have the power to make change. We’re a Democracy! That means the government fears US! There’s an election coming up, and we can make our voices known! And as far as these universities are concerned, what speaks the loudest to them? MONEY! If we don’t like what they’re teaching our kids, send those kids to other universities! That teaches ‘em real quick! There’s the ticket, cats! If we as a people do these things, we’ll begin to see a difference in three years.

• 56 Jeff // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:41 pm

  Look, agree or disagree with the speaker, that is fine. What bothers me most about the outcome of this event, and many others like it, is that this is a place of supposed higher education. A place where diversity of thought is supposed to be allowed — NO, encouraged. Why is it that, on today’s college campuses, the only ideas and thoughts that are allowed to be expressed or worse — go absolutely unchallenged are those of the liberal? There are two sides to every argument — or there wouldn’t be one! Let both sides be heard. Shouting down one side or another does no one any good. Use logic and make points to win an argument, not disruptive behavior.

• 57 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:47 pm

  ProudVeteranWoman,
  May I speak for the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS - Thank God for those of you who have served AMERICA AND AMERICANS, and even those that are ignorant to the facts of WHY and WHAT you have paid so dearly for to protect US ALL. It’s pathetic how the so-called “mainstream media” withholds the facts of the true accomplishments our military have secured in Iraq, Afganhistan, etc, just to forward their agenda against America. Yep! I say AGAINST AMERICA. It’s easy enough to check out the Communist/Socialist Democrat Party and their good buddies in the Socialist Media in America. See what the Communist papers that were recorded in Congress in 1963 strived for.
  Thankfully more Americans are waking up to the real threats we face and THE MAJORITY SUPPORTS OUR MILITARY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH OR HOW OFTEN THE LIES ARE TOLD BY THE MEDIA ….AMERICANS SUPPORT OUR MILITARY!

• 58 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 29, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  Technician,
  We were founded as a Republic, not a Democracy. The major difference is that a Republic is ruled BY THE PEOPLE and the government fears us; whereas a Democracy is by the “the mob”, and run by the government - people fear their government.

• 59 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:05 pm

  Yusuf quote:

  lola wrote

  “This is exactly what I was talking about! David Horowitz is not against Islam and draws the distinction between Islam and Islamo-Facism”

  What you talking about. Horowitz is dead against Islam the emblem of peace in the world. He attacks the basic tenets of Islam the only true religeon delivered by god Allah to mankind to follow. No one has the right to raise a finger against Islam the only truith in universe. How dare you call them islamo-facist. They are fighting to establish muslim god allah’s
  commandment in this world. They are the Mujahadin, army of god. Remember, islam begins where Nazi and communism failed and it delivered from heaven.
  —————————————-

  Here is my refute, Yusuf. As a man who loves Muslims, I have come to a greater understand of Islam, so that I can understand all of the seed of Abraham. The words you spoke are not only a declaration of war against all who are not Muslims and a justification of mass murder—which is an unforgivable sin in Islam—but such words bring shame upon you and your people. We are NOT infidels, and the Mujaheddin have NO right to declare their jihad upon us! Mohammad was quite specific in his teachings concerning us. We are the people of the Book! We are to be treated like brothers, not murdered by suicide bombers! We’re both the seed of Abraham, and thus brothers in the eyes of God, so I can’t sit here and condemn you, but I’m pleading with you sir, don’t continue to believe this extremist philosophy, or you’ll lose everything long before you stand before God. If you sow seeds of distrust, hate, and war, you will reap misery, loneliness, and a living death. That’s not a threat, and it’s not Christian propaganda. God is not mocked, Yusuf. You’ll reap what you sow. It is a law as inescapable as gravity. I hope you break out of that mentality soon, buddy. It hurts to feel persecuted and miserable.

• 60 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:11 pm

  Rhonda Speaur,

  Yeah… I noticed the error in my terminology there. We are indeed a Republic, but we use the democratic process to empower the people to direct the policies of their government—which is why the government fears the people in a Republic. However, it should be noted that despite a minor error in the use of a single term does not take away from the context of my message. While I do thank you for the correction, the meaning of the message was not lost by the misplacing of a single word.

• 61 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:16 pm

  What these protestors aren’t getting or understanding, about terrorists and extremists is this…
  I am not talking about normal everyday good Muslims. This is about the bad guys… The guy’s we are at War with.

  You can’t bargain or reason with radical terrorists. They are like the wolf.

  They will come into your yard and kill your chickens, sheep, ducks and geese, your dog. They will come into your house/yard and kill your children. They will come into your house/yard and kill you. That’s what they do. That’s what they are taught from the time they are born to do. That’s all they know. It is what they want more than anything. To kill as many of us Americans as they can… Period. To them, killing a protestor or two would be the icing on the cake for them…

  Protestors are doing their dirty work for them. They create chaos. When the radicals are done with them they will kill them too.

  The reason why is this. Because we are free and we are strong. Because we are the Shepherds and Police of the world. Because we are the ones that would stand up to them. They want everyone to become radical Muslims just like them or die. They are already killing the Sunni Muslims now, because the Sunni aren’t radical enough for them. They want us all dead because we would defend the rest of the world from them. That is why they want us dead first. Then they can concentrate on the rest of the world. They are strategically moving their chess pieces on the board now. Making temporary allies with whoever will get them the tools they need. Then they will kill them too once they are done using them.

  Get it? If the media would just print the truth instead of all this liberal shit the rest of America would know the truth about what is going on… In a Nut Shell…

• 62 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:33 pm

  Thank you Rhonda.

  You are absolutely right. Again if the media would print the truth more often, more American’s would have a clue. Plus the world wouldn’t all hate us so much.

• 63 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:34 pm

  The world has been reading so many lies about us from our own media they all think we are all liberals. Which is so far from the truth as you can get.

• 64 milldolly // Oct 29, 2007 at 7:48 pm

  Jc,
  Talk about being in control.

  The Hebrew word for religion means “bondage”.
  There is so much more to be learned than meets the eye.
  Remain teachable. Keep searching.
  The unseen realm is LOVE

• 65 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 8:30 pm

  milldolly and JC

  Religion can indeed be used as bondage, that is true, but so can atheism. Atheism is based on the notion that one cannot accept there is one greater than he is, therefore it rejects the notion of a creator. To justify this position, the age of the earth was inflated long before we had the tools to verify its true age, and the theory of Evolution was used as justification of the resulting elitist mentality that came from atheism. Under the theory of Evolution, certain groups of people can say with a certain amount of ‘credibility’ that they are more deserving of life and resources than other groups by saying they are more highly evolved. This is the THEOLOGICAL basis for Communism! Why do I say it’s theological? Simple! Evolution is a gross violation of the laws of nature. In particular, the Laws of Thermodynamics. According to the first law, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, therefore the Universe cannot spring out of nothing, because it is SOMETHING, made of matter and energy. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that in an enclosed system, the amount of usable energy will decrease over time, and the amount of UNUSABLE energy will increase. This means cars left outside will rust away, eventually into nothing but dust and dirt. DNA itself, the single most complex molecule in existence disproves the theory of Evolution because it’s too complex to have arisen naturally. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states quite clearly that it will break down over time and its stored information will inevitably become corrupted and all organisms relying on DNA to survive will die. THAT is what mutation is. DEGRADATION! But this elitist mentality does not allow for the freedom of speech necessary to refute its Evolution theology, and in doing so, blinds us all to other and even more dangerous truths. If we think we’re animals, we’ll ACT like them. So the trouble therefore is not religion itself, but the elitist interpretation of religion—ALL religions, including atheism and its denominations, Socialism and Communism.

• 66 the awakened // Oct 29, 2007 at 8:45 pm

  Wake up lefties!!…Our enemies are coming in the gates like the Trojan Horse once did….Its completely ignorant to think we are not apt to being attacted within. Boneheads!! This type of thinking just might take this country into civil war….

• 67 Dan // Oct 29, 2007 at 8:47 pm

  I think that most there wanted him to speak, the protestors should have been forced to leave. No matter what your view is, he should be allowed to speak and say what he wanted to say. It’s sad that they wouldn’t let him speak.
  Universities and Colleges are indoctrinating the youth of the entire world, making most of them left and far left people.
  I praise the kids who can go through college and come out still having their own conservative values. The extreme left is ruining this Great country.

• 68 Gray // Oct 29, 2007 at 8:57 pm

  JC. What you don’t understand is that there are some religions today who hate your life style. Christianity once had the crusades, but they evolved. Islam is a religion that puts women and gays as less than human. Wake up.

• 69 joe // Oct 29, 2007 at 9:07 pm

  TO LOLA,
  I’m not of the Hebrew religion,but a NAZI salute is not offensive?
  Little marxist-PAHLEESE !!!!
  Go to IRAN and protest,you can go to IRAQ NOW.Thanks to our Soldiers.
  You DO have a head full of mush, otherwise,if you wanted to ask relevant questions,you would have shut the protesters down !!
  But hey,under muslim sharia law-you only count as 1/3rd of a person-being just a woman and all, and be glad we don’t have it here-i’d be the first to thow stones at you as you sit buried to your chin in the dirt. naaaah i wouldn’t do that-you see,i BELIEVE that you have a right to be and remain stupid,to be led around by the nose with false facts and “inconvienent truths”-you facist bitch.

• 70 Mary OBrien // Oct 29, 2007 at 9:46 pm

  I am sicked by the display at Emory Unitersity almost as much as I was by the fact that the President of Iran was invited to speek at any American University. This is America and we all have a right to freedom of speech or so I thought. The Iranian president does not even have the right to be in this country and should not have been. However David Horowitz is an American citizen and was not even given his right to speak nor the dignity due any human being especially one that apparently was invited to be there. If this is what parents on spending thier hard earned money to send there kids to school for perhaps they should be rethinking thier priorities.
  I personally think we should not be educating Muslims or foreign students in this county but that is my own opinion. To allow them to disrupt a speech given by an American is a travisty.
  We need to wake up and see what is happening here before it is too late. Speak up and stand up for our county for our beliefs as Americans don’t let political correctness doom the county that we love. Freedom is not free, we have to stand up for what we believe and protect the rights of America. Be respectful of our citizens we all have different views on things but we all deserve a voice, that is our way!

• 71 Bob // Oct 29, 2007 at 9:57 pm

  Why does all this surprise everyone???

• 72 Raised Eyebrow // Oct 29, 2007 at 10:48 pm

  The are some things I have a problem with, in this whole mess. For one, it’s religeon. Some see that religeon is bad, (which I am NOT saying is untrue, as some ARE bad don’t get me wrong…) and do things like use that as reason to not believe in anything. This in and of itself is narrowminded, as religeon shouldn’t be belief. It is instead only the expression of belief. By stating that all those that do not have some form of faith are the ones that see truth, you set yourself above others. In other words, Athiesm has become another religeon, and it is very elitist.

  Another point seems to be that the protesters stood and vocalised thier displeasure at someone else not haveing the same oppinion as thier own. This of course, is pointed out by some that they are performing as someone that is unwilling to allow someone else to express thier views. In other words, they are refusing someone other then themselves to be able to have free expression. This is a very disturbing and dangerous trend I have been seeing for several years. This is another form of elitism. The “Your oppinion is nowhere near as important as mine, because I am right and you are wrong” outlook. This trend is actually started in preschool, and some have never outgrown it. But, as a polite and intelligent person, I try and get more viewpoints. I wonder if these people would be offended if I were to point out that the Crusades, the persecution of the Jews, the persecution of the Christians, ad nausium… are based upon this viewpoint. The true great thinkers of the ages were able to move beyond thier own worldview to see that perceptions of truth, or even one persons perceptions, are different then the person standing next to them. Even of the exact same event they both just watched.

  I honestly believe that there was a spirit to the constitution. The founding fathers felt that what they were trying to build, would renew itself, or “evolve” beyond what they knew. They wanted us to move beyond thier current understanding of the world, and make a new path for ourselves. However, the times they lived in, were violent, and they had just done some things that were both considered impossible, as well as completely foolhardy. The times they were in, decreed that those that were different were to be considdered heritics, they were not to be trusted, the laws were irrifutable… (Again, ad nausium…) So, they had a much different outlook then we in out more cushy times had. They stated that all should be given the freedom to speak thier mind. They were making sure that those that were unhappy with the change to the way they were governed, would have the ability to both be heard, as well as have the right to even change things. A comprimise, as it were. From those times, we, the people of the United States, have become a very large force in the world. Neither good or bad, but just a power. The use of that power could be for the good or bad. I am not making a statement of whether or not we should be in Iraq, or Afganistan. Instead, I am saying that the power that the US exemplifies, is great.

  Because of this power, and because of the wealth that others see that we have, there is a gathering jelousy. Also, because of the heavy handed use of the power we represent, by those that have been, or are currently in power, falible men that have a great deal of responsibility in them, many of those outside our borders have made judgement of who and what we are. Also, based upon the agendas of those that “report the news”, there is also a bad picture that has been given to those that are not here, or even have been told by thier “leaders” about us. The NEWS agencies out there have two problems. The reporters, or thier writers, are giving a slanted view of things, either for thier own agenda, or because we are telling them through thier ratings what WE want to see. So, in all honesty, some of the responsibility about what is said, is ours.

  The last thing I would say, in this book that started out as a small idea, (sorry to you all that have muddled through the words above…) is that we all have choices. We all have responsibility, and we all have rights. However, I would personally find that there should be a change to the amendment on Freedom of Speech. It would be this. “All have the right to Free Speech, after excersizing the RESPONSIBILITY to search out the truth, as long as the rights we use do not infringe upon the rights of others to the same.”

  I am a US soldier. I have given up many of my rights, so that the people of the United States can excersize and KEEP thier rights. I will never do anything knowingly, to cause those rights to be lost. I have lived and worked in places that have given up, or never had those rights. To be honest, I have gained a true understanding of those “rights”. And that they are not truly rights. They are instead RESPONSIBILITIES. You are responsible for the things you say, or the actions you do. You are responsibile for the consequenses you have while doing what you feel are your “rights”. And in the end, we will answer for the use or abuse of those rights, by either the diety we belive in, or by the generations to come. Do NOT take these responsibilities lightly. Some here have said that they would have liked, or even wanted to hear Horowitz speak. What I have to ask is this. How did you use your RESPONSIBILITY to have that right?

• 73 Carl Tarajkowski // Oct 29, 2007 at 11:14 pm

  You can all thank the soldiers who go off to war and protect us so we can have our freedoms. Our military keeps us free……if you doubt that, just go to Iran and see how much freedom you have, esp. if you are female or gay!!
  It’s too bad that a few vocal people ruin it for everyone else…..Say I wasnt there…..why didnt the majority just shout the non-Emory leftists down when David Horiwitz was to speak??

• 74 Wake Up // Oct 29, 2007 at 11:25 pm

  Freedom of speech gives you the right to speak your views. It doesn’t give you the right to stop others from speaking! If you don’t agree with somebody’s viewpoint, you can protest outside where you are not stepping on their rights, and you can speak yourself. Anybody in the building that that was standing, shouting, etc. should’ve been arrested for public disorder since they were stopping the free speech of another individual. It is funny how so many people think they have the right to violate the rights of others as part of their free speech! I remember the peace riots in San Francisco where they stopped traffic and burned cars to “make their point”. They’re entitle to protest, but they have to keep out of the way of traffic and respect property! The moment they stopped traffic and started destroying property, they should’ve been arrested. I’m tired of allowing rioters to destroy property and lives. I remember when people could be shot for looting and rioting, and I think we need to go back to that!

• 75 Technician // Oct 29, 2007 at 11:31 pm

  Raised Eyebrow,

  FINALLY a soldier speaks! Set the stage, brother! Tell ‘em like it is! Listen to this guy, people! He’s bled for us out there! Sir, thank you for your eloquent message of concern and your call for responsibility. You’re quite right. We live in a cushy society where the very things our founding fathers said and did to buy our freedom in blood are considered unthinkable, and if George Washington had been a general running the war in Iraq, he would have been crucified before Congress, stripped of his command, and given a prison sentence, all from the ignorance of government officials. Indeed, if our founding fathers stood on our soil now, they would curse us for the sheer arrogance and ignorance we so blithely display when we selectively pick and choose rights under the Constitution to use, or to take from others, or selectively follow and enforce our laws. But again I say hey! Don’t take it from me. Take it from a soldier who gave himself to be something less than a citizen so that he could be ordered BY US to fight for OUR freedom! God bless you, sir!

• 76 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:22 am

  ProudVeternWoman,
  I believe it is the MEDIA and the SOCIALISTS in government who proclaim the “perceived” hatred for America. If it were true, why do so many millions of people want to come here? WE aren’t the ones who are hated by the world’s masses, but we ARE hated by those anti-American socialist/marxist/communists within our country - and God help us, some are running for the office of President…check out what the TRUE meaning of a “progressive” is — and guess from whom that term came without even the slightest stammer!
  We’re deceived and lied to by the media that covers up all the vile, illegal activities of “certain” politicians, yet they will expose any conservative (notice that I did not say Republican) for misspeaking or incorrectly pronouncing some word trying to belittle, embarrass, or claim the stupidity is owned by the conservative or faith-based person - at one time Uranus was pronounced differently - wonder who decided to change that? It’s just the “tweaking” here and there to get people to accommodate and conform. I actually now can think of some people and pronounce Uranus - and mean it! (as in … You’re an _______!)
  Also, God Bless you, Raised Eyebrow and ALL our military. You all are owed our thanks, gratitude and respect. YOU HAVE IT!
  I hope I’m causing heartburn for all the uranus’ out there! I feel it’s my duty and responsibility to do so now. My little bit of sarcasm and enlightenment for the ignorant.

• 77 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:33 am

  Bob,
  I don’t think anyone is surprised by the ignorance and disruption by boorish fools, but I believe that many more Americans are seeing and paying attention to this kind of behavior now and are SICK of it. It may be that fewer people will take it anymore without standing firm and taking back our country - one fascist at a time will be exposed as the un-American they are. I’m especially happy to think that we will stop allowing the loud-mouthed idiots to run anyone off stage or force them to sit down and shut up anymore. They’ve had their day, now it’s our time to step up and take control back - and help our soldiers and TRUE AMERICANS in government regain our traditional values and restore America as it was founded , as a true republic that adheres to the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights, NOT the perverted UN or any international law. Our country was founded by our laws, NOT foreign law.
  Good night everyone. God Bless, and sleep well - our military is on watch and deserve nothing less than us having their backs too.

• 78 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:45 am

  Jc,
  One more comment tonight before I call it a day - please read this carefully… Religion doesn’t kill (it’s religious nutjobs who kill). Ever heard this one… “Guns don’t kill, people kill?” Really, it’s true! Just as SUV’s don’t kill - people driving irresponsibly (whether an SUV or a Peeus oops! Preous, or however it’s spelled) do.
  Just a thought, but perhaps a worthwhile concept to share. Night.

• 79 Brett Burgess // Oct 30, 2007 at 1:07 am

  “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” Aristotle

  I concur with this statement entirely. If you cannot even just listen to someone, you are a slave, a slave to your own ignorance. People have to accept that their not the most brilliant there is, they have to be open to the fact that there are smarter individuals out there. I actually don’t even have a clue who Horowitz is so I can’t judge his intellect, but how do the protestors know if he has something good to say if they don’t even listen? …sigh… this is very sad to me, what happened here was a keen example of anarchy. Isn’t this what Hitlers “brown shirts” did? I guess it’s not as major as killing people for having a different opinion, but I’m confident that we’re on our way.

  I would also like to thank personally Raised Eyebrow for his incredible service to our country. GOD BLESS YOU! It’s people like you that allow us to even talk about freedom. You can be against war, but the moment you trash our soldiers or their cause, I believe you should be shot for treason.

  JC, I would have to say that you are the only aithiest that I’ve heard make sense. I used to think that people who don’t believe in God so that they have an excuse to do whatever they want. As for your comment about all religions believing that if you don’t convert, your going to hell, I would like to correct you. I am a Mormon, and we strongly believe that you will not go to hell if you don’t believe. We believe that once you die, you will go to the Spirit World and have the chance to recieve the Gospel if you didn’t have the oppertunity or didn’t believe in God. I personlly think that the most important thing in the world is believing in Christ.

  Anyway, I’ll end my post with my all time favorite quote by Voltaire, “I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

• 80 GS // Oct 30, 2007 at 1:26 am

  First and foremost I salute all you veterans who now or have ever worn the uniform honorably. I have myself just retired from the military in Dec 06 with over 29 years service. I believe my great uncle hit the nail on the head when he said that some people spend thousands of dollars to get a college education, only to become an educated fool. On the subject of religion has ANYONE ever heard of the word “Prophecy”. It would seem that if someone looks at the current world situation and studies the Bible prophecy objectively and with an open mind, it doesn’t take an Einstein to put 2 and 2 together. If people don’t realize that this is the terminal generation before Christ’s return, your only fooling yourself. The Bible speaks of the knowledge explosion in the last days, the creation of the nation of Israel in a day (Happened in 1948), which also the Bible states that not one generation will pass until Christ’s return, once the nation of Israel is re-established. Also see if this sounds familiar, that people will be full of envy, strife, murder, deceit, backbiters, covetous, insolent, proud, braggarts, without natural affection, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, unmerciful, malicious, unrighteous, fornicators, wicked, rumor mongers, to cause harm and haters of God. Seems like every time I hear a news report or read a newspaper I see all this. HUH. I respect the rights of all people to worship as they please, but as for me, I remember one thing, Jesus Christ is the ONLY one that EVER rose from the dead. For anyone else in history to be the Son of God according to Bible prophecy except Jesus Christ, the odds are 1 in 93 to the 96th power. For you statisticians, I believe that would be a pretty compelling number. There are many, many, many archeological finds that are proving every day that the Bible is the real deal. That’s proof positive people. Search it out for yourself and see what you find. Whatever you do don’t take some far left wing know it alls word on it. Search it out yourself, you might be surprised on what you’ll find.

• 81 Technician // Oct 30, 2007 at 2:11 am

  Amen, GS. We could start a forum based on your post alone! There was even prophecy in the Bible which foretold the rise of Islam, but those scriptures—some spoken by Jesus himself—were not favorable. But to add a bit of sugar to the medicine, I will say that God knew of the rise of Islam long before it came, and made provision for His children—even the sons and daughters of Ishmael. Jesus died for ALL!

  But the point is simple. If you want to know what’s going on and what will happen, grab yourself a Bible and get the step-by-step commentary. It’s all there, written in black and white, in a little book at the end, called Revelation. Read it fellas, then turn on the news. Once you’ve thoroughly soiled yourself, clean up and start asking God to show you what He wants YOU to do to make a change in this country.

• 82 Tertillian // Oct 30, 2007 at 2:53 am

  Wow! In some ways, I do not know where to begin. There are a number of good points, and a far greater number of bad points. A few are complete tangents and add no value to this topic, though very revealing of the individual responder.

  First, most are doing in their responses EXACTLY what they are complaining about: labeling, attacking, feeling, etc. There is not enough thinking going on here, I am sad to say. There are a few with whom a constructive discourse could be made, like “lola”, but far too few considering the participants (college students?).

  It is interesting to note that both sides spend time invoking emotion in each other using labels and other verbal mechanisms, some of which appear to be the sole purpose and others as a reaction.

  I must contrast this with the purpose of academia: to promote the use of discipline in all areas of interpreting our world. The aim of this discipline is to temper our emotive tendencies in order to arrive at more appropriate responses. It also acknowledges a fundamental flaw in all interpretations: ego-centrism. This requires humility, which is too rare a resource. I think academia has transformed our world in a very substantially positive way.

  It appears that some of those responsible for academia have failed to fulfill their responsibility or maybe we have just forgotten. The deterioration may be worse today, but I concede that academia may have always been in this way, since I am relying only on my temporal perspective, and may yet serve its positive purpose.

  I close this part with a note that nearly all the tragedies of the human experience and human history, including today, are made possible by persons willing and able to tap into our primal emotive tendencies for ill rather than good. There is no “Easy” button to counter this. It falls to each individual to internalize the use of the aforementioned discipline, and promote its use in others. Then, maybe, we can have REAL progress. It is amazing what you can learn even from the ideas with which you disagree. If you find yourself not learning in these situations, then you are not really listening.

  Finally, on the topic at hand, no person who denies another person’s right has legitimate claim to that same right themselves. Further, the use of a person’s right stops when it is used to deny another’s right. The actions of the protesters merely served self-negation — no one wins, but rather all lose (eventually).

  BONUS: Here is a little tidbit of learning that may be of interest. Scientists have found that the human brain is not fully developed until about age 25, with the last being the area that controls judgment. I don’t know if it explains this topic, but it certainly explains my first 25 years. God Bless.

• 83 Kate // Oct 30, 2007 at 3:10 am

  I would like to know what the red ribbon is suppose to mean around the arms of protesters. The video clip clearly showed people in Islamic dress and plain dress both participating. I don’t believe it matters who started the problem at this stage, Muslim or non-Mulsim, just that it was allowed to happen in the first place. When the disruption began, steps should have been taken to remove the instigators. Does the campus have no control?

• 84 Technician // Oct 30, 2007 at 3:18 am

  Kate,

  The Emory University Campus had control, but did not use it for reasons unknown and irrelevant because they are unknown. It will do very little good to attempt to pin reasons on the University based on the facts presented, other than to say that they’re liberals, and liberals do not tolerate conservative opinions, statements, practices, or values. The disruption could have been stopped or even prevented by judicious on the part of Emory University and it would have been a shining example of freedom in action, but instead, the university and its students brought shame upon themselves. They’ll feel the shame of this day for years to come, and they’ll have no one to blame but themselves.

  Well, now that that’s said, on with the debates!

• 85 Malcolm // Oct 30, 2007 at 4:17 am

  GOOGLE IT PEOPLE!!! ‘F’ ELRON???? uhhh!!! Gasp! Blasphamey!!! You Evil Doer…. Anyway…. I am a 52 year old Vet…and when I look and see, and hear whats being said…and taught at most of the Unvrstys these days….I get sick, I can only say that this country is in deep doo-doo folks. The Left will never see this….to blinded. Too immersed in hate…. BLIND!!! Now…..Elron…. That was the Rings Guy…errr…right?

• 86 Malcolm // Oct 30, 2007 at 4:24 am

  GS: Well said…WELL PUT!!! you are 1 in 93… Bravo!!

• 87 mrod // Oct 30, 2007 at 5:01 am

  Down with the lefties.

• 88 Living In The Past » Anti-terrorist speaker booed at University // Oct 30, 2007 at 6:05 am

  […] but was unable to after students chanted ‘racist, sexist, David Horowitz go away!’. Watch the video. It’s a facet of the biggest threat we face today in America, and the young people of America […]

• 89 clifford chagnon // Oct 30, 2007 at 8:21 am

  Have we already lost the fight for freedom and our American way of life and liberty under God not terrorism and leftist of the minority.

• 90 GENE // Oct 30, 2007 at 8:46 am

  IF WE LEAVE IT TO THE LIBERALS THIS WILL BE A TERRORIST NATION. I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT OUR SO CALLED EDUCATED YOUTH WOULD SUPPORT TERRORIST.WOMAN , GAYS , OR FREEDOM OF RELIGION ARE ALL TARGETS OF OTHER NATIONS HERE YOU ARE FREE AND THIS IS HOW YOU THANK THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE YOU THAT FREEDOM. IF IT IS SO BAD HERE THEN GET THE HELL OUT!!!!

• 91 Rock // Oct 30, 2007 at 9:17 am

  Radical Islam= death to any non-believers

  same as Nazi’s

• 92 ProudVeteranWoman // Oct 30, 2007 at 10:03 am

  Brett #79
  You are correct…
  (…sigh… this is very sad to me, what happened here was a keen example of anarchy. Isn’t this what Hitler’s “brown shirts” did? I guess it’s not as major as killing people for having a different opinion, but I’m confident that we’re on our way. )
  This group of yelling people is just like the Brown shirts of yester-year trying to suppress free thinkers into submission. They think their way is the only way.

  We really need to nip this crap in the bud before it gets a stronger hold here… But How??? We sure as hell don’t need another Nazi Germany happening on our sacred soil… You would think these nut jobs as well as others around the world would of learned their lessons of the past… Or is it one of those, I don’t believe it happened unless I actually see it to believe it mentalities??? What crap… We have survivors here that saw it and movies and newspapers and photo’s of it happening… What the hell is there not to believe??? The minority trying to force the rest of us into their opinion needs to sit down and let us all see the truth for ourselves of what Horowitz has to say… We can decide for ourselves what we think or feel the truth is…

  Kate // Oct 30, 2007 at 3:10 am #83
  The red ribbon around here signifies a kid’s promise to his school and to his family to be drug free… At the colleges it probably means something else entirely though… Something nefarious more than likely…

• 93 Jackie // Oct 30, 2007 at 10:46 am

  JC
  I really hate that you feel this way. I want you to remember all you have said here when the hereafter comes. It is real. God is real, Heaven is real, Hell is real. Just because you don’t believe, doesn’t make you exempt. I beg you to reconsider.
  America has turned from God and is going to pay the price I feel really soon. Jesus is coming back to take his children home and then all Hell is going to break loose.
  Wake up people! Don’t be left behind to go through pure hell here on earth and then be dumped into hell forever…….It’s so easy to accept Christ now. He loves us and is willing to forgive us of anything that we have ever done wrong. But it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgement.

• 94 Humphrey // Oct 30, 2007 at 11:04 am

  If these are the leaders of the future.We are in trouble.BIG TROUBLE.

  Whats bothers me is the basic lack of decency among college students

• 95 Concirned Reeder // Oct 30, 2007 at 11:16 am

  I’m not shore witch is more embareassing; the lack of edukation of them at Emery U. or the lack of educkation of the posters on this site. If you don’t know what I’m tocking about then you are shorely one of they.

• 96 Laughing-at-you // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:38 pm

  Joe is nothing more then a jackass crybaby moma’s boy. Go home you left wing scum

• 97 Jace Steale // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:39 pm

  I am curious if any of you know anything about David Horowitz and why the left hates him so much. If any of you had read or knew anything about his book Prodigal Son you know. The Left feels toward David Horwitz like our revolutionary forebears felt about Benedict Arnold. David Horowitz was a crown prince of the leftist movement. His parents were long standing members of the Communist Party, He was an integral part of the radical leftist movement of the 60’s. The problem is that he started to think about their philosophy and question it. He questioned the mass killing which took place after our withdrawal from Viet Nam, in that country and particularly in Cambodia. If you have any knowledge of the history of the lefist movement and its close relative the communist movement then you also know that questioning the underlying philosophy is probably the most heinous crime which can be committed against the movement. In countries dominated by this philosophy like the Soviet Union, Communist China, communist Viet Nam, Cambodia and many others , the punishment for this crime is death. Since this option is not available to the leftist in the US they muxt resort to the type of tactics that you witnessed at Emory University. NOthing could be worse for them than to have one so honored in their hierarchy decide that their philosophy is incorrect and then to go about the country pointing out not only the fallacies of their philosophy but their battle plan to bring down those that oppose them. This is in the nature of sacrilege for a philosophy where by the state has replaced God as the head of their religion. Read Prodigal Son By David Horowitz or check out Wikipedia

• 98 Jc // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:59 pm

  Atheist, which is what some of you have labeled me is pathetic, your so wrapped in your religion that everone else has to belong to one too. If its not yours, well… read on

  Gary,Gary,Gary,Gary

  You must think I eat soup with a fork and salad with a spoon. “wake up” and then? I should do the christian thing right? Go talk to them, tell them they are going to hell. That will fix it, right Gary.

  This cracks me up right here:

  78 Rhonda Spaur // Oct 30, 2007 at 12:45 am

  Jc,
  One more comment tonight before I call it a day - please read this carefully… Religion doesn’t kill (it’s religious nutjobs who kill). Ever heard this one… “Guns don’t kill, people kill?” Really, it’s true! Just as SUV’s don’t kill - people driving irresponsibly (whether an SUV or a Peeus oops! Preous, or however it’s spelled) do.
  Just a thought, but perhaps a worthwhile concept to share. Night.

  My response:

  If you lead a religion and you condemn a people for whatever reason, should the leader not be held responsible for the actions of its teachings? No, I guess guns wouldn’t kill people as long as there were no people to kill.

  Brett, thanks for being one of the few, the proud, the persecuted. One of the most persecuted among American religion is the mormons. Yet you still carry the same beliefs, when I die and go to your “spirit world” my choice will be the same, believe or spend eternity in hell. Its not “different” and I am sorry for that, but its just not.

  Another Response:

  85 Malcolm // Oct 30, 2007 at 4:17 am

  GOOGLE IT PEOPLE!!! ‘F’ ELRON???? uhhh!!! Gasp! Blasphamey!!! You Evil Doer…. Anyway…. I am a 52 year old Vet…and when I look and see, and hear whats being said…and taught at most of the Unvrstys these days….I get sick, I can only say that this country is in deep doo-doo folks. The Left will never see this….to blinded. Too immersed in hate…. BLIND!!! Now…..Elron…. That was the Rings Guy…errr…right?

  Elron Hubbard, you know, the leader of scientology. Sure its hard to believe, I’m sure christianity was pretty hard to believe when it was invented. Whats the difference? Time. Both religions are asking you to believe in something that could potentially be “imaginary”. How much of a stretch is that from any other religion? I am not a scientologist by the way, I felt that I should state that so some of our more …. uneducated would not confuse it.

  Last horse for the stable today:

  93 Jackie // Oct 30, 2007 at 10:46 am

  JC
  I really hate that you feel this way. I want you to remember all you have said here when the hereafter comes. It is real. God is real, Heaven is real, Hell is real. Just because you don’t believe, doesn’t make you exempt. I beg you to reconsider.
  America has turned from God and is going to pay the price I feel really soon. Jesus is coming back to take his children home and then all Hell is going to break loose.
  Wake up people! Don’t be left behind to go through pure hell here on earth and then be dumped into hell forever…….It’s so easy to accept Christ now. He loves us and is willing to forgive us of anything that we have ever done wrong. But it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgement.

  my last response:

  This must be one of the “religious nuts” everyone is so scared about. Christians, look around the world at the many religions available (I say available because that just what it is), yours is the youngest, the freshest, and also the most rewritable. Take the “holy” bible for instance, king james… didnt he have it re written so that he could …. well if you dont know that story then you shouldnt be allowed to be christian. I have studied many many religions and the christian religion is designed for control of not only thoughts and ideas but money as well. Just look at their offering plates, 100% designed for guilt, why else would it be a large shallow bowl? You can so easily see what everyone around you is putting in. The person after you will see how much you put in. To tithe means to give 10% of my earnings? Tell me why should I give someone 10% of what I earn. If this were the case hmm that would make the church… a … dare I say…. RICH LIKE THERES NO TOMMORROW AND A TAX FREE RIDE TO BOOT.

  I recently attended the grand opening of the most popular church in my town, (my attendance was based soley on business) The final price tag was around 14 million…. Yeah christians are very “christian” a big metal building, a decent stereo and some damn chairs would have cost all of 50 thousand even 100 thousand then they could have saved an entire village in darfur or been donated to help cure cancer. No, hell no, thats not christian, they are concerned about social status and who makes what and who’s kids are screwing who.

  Me grow up?
  Me wake up?
  Me get a life?

  I am old enough to not belive in imaginary friends and old enough to realize that if you dont help yourself and those around you, you will be a miseralbe person.

  I have been awake for a long time now. Just ask Ed Young, I am out from under the umbrella of god.

  I have a life, its the one I started at birth and its the one I plan on dying with. Theres no need for worship of myself so i have more time to live my life.

• 99 Jace Steale // Oct 30, 2007 at 1:08 pm

  More on David Horowitz… As Raised Eyebrows has pointed out… the world opinion as well as the opinion of many of our own citizens have been influenced in a negative way by biased reporting by the media… One of the gravest crimes that David Horowitz committed against the lefist movement that i failed to expound upon in my previos post was that he disclosed their intended stategy. They postulated that trying to convert adults was an execise in futility… what htey needed to do was to control the education of the youth and the media this way oover a long period of time they would be able to influence and convert large numbers of people and eventually gain control and defeat those that disagreed with their politcal philosophy. Are you gaining any insight? Its much harder to influence and convert people when they have been informed that the intent is to influence and convert. You would now have combat not only those whose natural instinct is to question but also those that would resist because they know the intent. While you can see the results of this campaign all around you, you can also realize that David Horowitz, by divulging their battle plans to the “enemy” has made things infinitely more difficult for them. I have watched the battle rage for a few decades and only recently with the advent of the internet and talk radio has their domination of information been thwarted. Obvioulsy their domination of education remains almost unchecked… look around you… is their an open and honest discussion of ideas or are opposing ideas shouted down?

• 100 shark // Oct 30, 2007 at 1:23 pm

  just more of the same.the libs love terrorist.they want to turn this country into a 3rd world hole so they can rule the dummies.these professors at these collages are just bitter failures at life so they get jobs that they can show how cool they are.and alot of those kids are just stupid and they “believe”it all.we are spin down the drain because of pc crap and the demoterrs

• 101 Technician // Oct 30, 2007 at 2:06 pm

  Has anyone noticed the decidedly pessimistic turn this forum has taken? Does anyone stop to think that terrorists visit this forum and shout and cheer because they think we’re divided, jaded, and hopeless? Worst of all, you KNOW the leftists are visiting this post, and they’re declaring victory because they think we’re beaten and unable to stand up to fight again! Guess what people? We’re AMERICANS! We’ve inherited balls of steel from our forefathers! We don’t have to take this crap laying down! Listen and listen good! There’s an ELECTION coming up next year where of all things, the damned PRESIDENTIAL office is up for grabs! USE this opportunity to enforce our will as a PEOPLE upon the government, and when we’ve got people in office that we KNOW have our backs, we can pop those little leftist zits at the universities. It’s time to put your money where your mouths are. You know the old saying, right? ‘You’re either part of the solution, or part of the problem. If you’re part of the solution, come with me. If you’re part of the problem, get the hell out of my way!’

• 102 american citizen // Oct 30, 2007 at 2:11 pm

  yusef wrote:
  “What you talking about. Horowitz is dead against Islam the emblem of peace in the world. He attacks the basic tenets of Islam the only true religeon delivered by god Allah to mankind to follow. No one has the right to raise a finger against Islam the only truith in universe. How dare you call them islamo-facist. They are fighting to establish muslim god allah’s
  commandment in this world. They are the Mujahadin, army of god. Remember, islam begins where Nazi and communism failed and it delivered from heaven.”
  What are you smoking? I have nothing against muslims. There are many muslims who simply believe in there religion and arent terorists or extremists. I believe in whatever you want to, but when these extremist terrorists kill people and comit UNFORGIVABLE terrorist acts is where I draw the line! I will not stand by and watch the terrorists kill people. I quote yusef: “islam the emblem of peace in the world”
  PEACE? Killing hundreds and destroying the twin towers, opressing women, killing gays simply because they’re homosexual? Is that your definition of peace, yusef? And the protestors calling Horrowitz anti gay and sexist?
  What about the goverments in the middle east that make it legal to stone and hang gays, force women to hide their faces and force mariage on women? And the extremists who comit these disgusting acts? Isnt that the kind of thing youre protesting against? WAKE UP PROTESTORS!

• 103 american citizen // Oct 30, 2007 at 2:13 pm

  typo: “i belive in whatever you want to” was meant to read: i belive in freedom to believe in any religion you want to

• 104 Jc // Oct 30, 2007 at 3:04 pm

  Two quotes, clearly not taken out of context. Read it and weep religions of the world, for the two that hate eachother the most are the two that will end us all.

  Yusef wrote this:

  “He attacks the basic tenets of Islam the only true religeon delivered by god Allah to mankind to follow. No one has the right to raise a finger against Islam the only truith in universe. How dare you call them islamo-facist. They are fighting to establish muslim god allah’s
  commandment in this world.”

  This was written by Jackie:

  “It is real. God is real, Heaven is real, Hell is real. Just because you don’t believe, doesn’t make you exempt. I beg you to reconsider.
  America has turned from God and is going to pay the price I feel really soon. Jesus is coming back to take his children home and then all Hell is going to break loose.”

  I dont know about the rest of you, but to me….. this seems like one in the same. In one scenario we all die, and in the other scenario… oh S@#T were all gonna die. Everyone just start praying to one religion a day until the end. This way you will be covered, because as we all know if you dont believe in godallabuddaron your basically screwed!

• 105 Jerry // Oct 30, 2007 at 3:34 pm

  Technician,
  And who do you say we should vote for?

• 106 Jackie // Oct 30, 2007 at 4:01 pm

  There is only one real God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. One Son, Jesus Christ, the savior of the world.
  One man wrote the Koran. Where over 40 men wrote the Holy Bible.
  Mohammad’s 12th descendant fell in a well when he was 4 years old and there was no one to carry on the name so they claim he is the Madi (savior) to come. He can only come back if there is much blood shed. This is why radical Islamist terriorists blow themselves up to kill many. Hoping it will inspire their Madi to come back.
  Mohammad claimed to be the prophet of God, the real God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He, and only He, spoke the words that he said God told him and people wrote them down for him. He was illiterate. He and only he is responsible the Koran.
  The Holy Bible tells from beginning to end. It fortells the coming of Jesus, his birth and everything that will happen afterward until the end of the world. Many prophets wrote the Holy Bible. Many different people inspired by God agree on the events to take place or have already taken place. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John tell the same story, each account of what they heard and saw with their own eyes.
  the Holy Bible does not mention Mohammad anywhere. I can’t see God telling anyone to strap a bomb on them and kill many inocent lives.
  Jesus says to love everyone even our enemies, pray for those who persecute you. Love is what Christianity is all about.
  I would much rather believe in a God who says to love than one who says to kill. Forgive rather than get even. Pray for them rather than blow up with a bomb.
  How can anyone not believe in God. Just look around you. He created all of this. A beautiful world indeed. People is what makes it corrupt.
  It sure didn’t come from a big bang. It didn’t crawl up out of the ocean. Man didn’t come from Monkeys. (I haven’t seen a monkey change to a man lately have you?)
  God spoke it all into existance. Believe it or not!

• 107 Jackie // Oct 30, 2007 at 4:08 pm

  Now as far as Horowitz, he should have had the opportunity to speak. The crowd at the other college gave Ahaminajad his time. Right or wrong, he had his say. The students who halted the speech for Horowitz were wrong. This is still America isn’t it? or is it?
  America better wake up or we won’t be America for much longer.

• 108 Jc // Oct 30, 2007 at 5:31 pm

  WHATS THE NUMBER ONE MOTIVATION?

  FEAR.

  Keep that in mind and read on.

  Jackie,

  Just a quick note since you did all the leg work for me. Thanks for proving my point about there being little difference between the two religions.

  40 writers: Sounds like a large body of people trying to control an even larger body of people.

  1 writer: Sounds like on person in a seat of power wanting even more control.

  Mohammed says to strap a bomb to yourself and kill as many as possible.

  Then you will be rewarded with 72 virgins

  Jesus Christ says that we should love our brother and pray for those that persecute.

  Then you will be rewarded with heaven, whatever that may be to you.

  Know what the difference between the two is?
  One uses fear of instant death to control everyone. The other uses fear of eternal suffering control everyone. In case your wondering yeah, its the same damn thing.

  Recognize for a moment that christians lead the government of the United States. Dont believe me?……. “In God we Trust” seems to be written on the monetary note given out by our government.

  Jackie, honestly,
  If you are not willing to accept evolution… well all hope is lost.

  Nice, the most common christian anti-evolution chant since ……. evolution?:

  “Man didn’t come from Monkeys. (I haven’t seen a monkey change to a man lately have you?)”

  A reflection of your simple narrow mind. Only a fool would fail to see evolution. Just because it isn’t in the bible doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

  Anyone remeber those ficticious dinosaurs? What, you havent seen a fish turn into a T-rex?
  Hmmm never heard of those in the bible.

  Look people, I know that we are all searching for a reason, a reason to be alive, to understand why, and to know what it all means. Its this very reason that we are where we are today. Looking for something more is human nature, its who we are its what makes us human and not animals.

  The human race needs religion because we created it, its for those among us who are not willing to accept the fact that you are just simply because you are. period.

• 109 GS // Oct 30, 2007 at 11:54 pm

  I think that there is one CLEAR fact that people are overlooking, that is makes absolutely no difference what ideas we hold, what opinions we have, what type of education we receive, or what we perceive as this is the way it is according to me. Listen people, this is all vanity. God is still in charge, always has been and always will be. What we think doesn’t really amount to a whole lot, it is what almighty God thinks that matters, it is still his world, ALL peoples of the world are still his creation, it is his plan that has been implemented whether we want to believe it or not and it WILL be as HE wants it in the end, and that folks is the bottom line, and the FINAL answer.

  I think that most people have the wrong perception of Jesus Christ. They see him as the meek and mild mannered man that came to Earth about 2000 years ago and who preached about turning the other cheek, and to some people they see that as a sign of weakness and a coward. Here is a bit of trivia for you, it was a custom in that region of the world in that era of time that when a person slapped another in the face, they used the back of their hand which was to belittle the person being slapped. However, if you turned the other cheek they had to use their open hand which made them their equal. Turning the other cheek was not a sign of weakness but a lesson that Christ showed us that we are all equal in God’s eyes. If you think that when Christ returns, he is going to be like HE was 2000 years ago, you will be greatly fooled. When Christ comes back, He will rule with a rod of iron, all the foolishness, all the murders, all the rapes, all the thievery, all the horsecrap that is going on in the world now, will come to a SUDDEN stop. These people that have the idea there is no real right or wrong but only the interpretaion of how you perceive it, won’t have a leg to stand on. By the way, who will you appeal to, some left wing judge that you hope will overturn the ruling. I can assure you when Jesus Christ makes a ruling it will be final and there will be NO appeal, because He is the ULTIMATE judge.

  To the person that doesn’t believe in God. I would present these facts to you, why are more and more people of SCIENCE becoming Christians? My family doctor is a Sunday school teacher, the surgeon who operated on my dad’s gall bladder had prayer with him before the operation, I was talking with a gynecologist of about 30 years and he told me he had been a man of science all his life and he had studied the human body with all of its intricacies, how the body worked and how really remarkable the human body was. He then told me that there was absolutely NO WAY in his mind that it was by pure chance that we came into being, that there HAD to be a Supreme Being somewhere. I have recently seen rocket scientists, astro-physicists, other doctors and surgeons on television professing their faith in Jesus Christ. These are ALL people of SCIENCE and with at least, doctorate degrees. But the clincher was a tape of an EVOLUTIONIST professor at Tulane University back in the 70’s I believe it was, that was saying how he was one of the leading evolutionist professor’s in the nation at that time and how a little Christian girl in his class kept answering questions he couldn’t answer.

• 110 GS // Oct 31, 2007 at 12:15 am

  Sorry I inadvertenly hit the submit button. But to correct the last sentence and continue on. The sentence should read how the little Christian girl in his class kept “asking” questions he couldn’t answer. The professor went on about how he had to search for answers, each time the girl asked a question, and the professor said each time he answered it sounded more and more ridiculous. The professor stated that then and there he was going to do an in depth research ot this Christianity thing and of Jesus Christ. I believe the professor’s research lasted about 3 years and at the end of the research not only did the professor become a Christian, he became a Baptist minister also. He then started preaching the word of God and telling everyone that would listen that the evolution theory was the biggest farce in human history. That is from a college professor who taught evolution. Hmmmmm

• 111 Technician // Oct 31, 2007 at 1:16 am

  Jerry,

  I honestly can’t say for certain WHO we should vote for just yet, but I suspect that there’s one presidential candidate that could be the guy we’re looking and praying for. That would be Huckabee. But I’m not telling anybody to vote for somebody just because I suspect he might be the right guy. We’re a Christian nation, right? That means that 80% of us are Christians and pray to God at least on occasion. I’m saying to do that. Pray that God will raise people up that will set this country straight, and most of all, that He would groom our next president, and reveal him to us so that we may vote for him. Notice that I said ‘him’ when referring to our next president. Nobody wants a Socialist in the White House. As far as presidential hopefuls go, that’s my only declaration—that Hillary Clinton should NOT be elected to the Presidency, EVER! But go pray, listen, study, research, and watch. God gave us all hearts and minds to feel and understand what is good or bad, and spiritual discernment to see past tissues of lies that are woven by the government and these hopefuls. Use it all!

• 112 Raised Eyebrow // Oct 31, 2007 at 3:18 am

  Though I find some of the discourse interesting, I believe we are mainly talking about the problems with free speech, not religeon. This country was founded upon both religeous diversity, as well as equality among man. The freedom we have, hasn’t been with all, as the country was struggling for it’s independance and identity, there were many things wrong. Over the years, tollerance started to be accepted, and acceptable. Slavery was abolished. Of course, it has still taken many years to cut most of the bigotry out of the way we look at each other. Some still remains, but it is still a work in progress.

  For those that are trying to convert JC, you should remember that he has the right to believe the way he chooses too. He can see the world as he wants, as well as we all can. This is one right we all have. And on the reverse side, he should accept that people other then him have just as much right to believe as they want as well. Disdain for belief, of any kind, is just a way to make yourself feel like you are better then your fellow man. Elitist attitudes, wether from Leftists, the Far Right, Fanatics, Believers, or Athiests, is something that we all should be on guard against. It harkens back to the bad old days when we considered a man to be less of a man because of his skin, or because of where he was born.

  To accept that there is no other way to look at life, is very narrowminded. Those that believe in a higher being, should always remember that someone that doesn’t, not only has the right in this country to not believe, but also has the right to actually practice that religeon. (Though, I don’t really understand how someone could consider that belief is also religeon, but I figure that is just a difference of semantics.) And before you feel like I am justifying JC’s position, I am not. I feel that the elitist attitude that JC is portraying, if both very narrowminded, but also very self destructive. To believe in something that is higher then ourselves, is a way to also try to improve oneself. Fear isn’t always the motivator. Instead, some use other emotions to give them reason. Love, desire, despair, even hope. To attribute all to fear, is just a way to try and minimize the efforts of others. To attribute fear as the only motivator, is like saying that the only reason not to commit a crime is because you are afraid of getting in trouble. Only one motivator. Very narrowminded.

  Elitism is something that we are seeing from these protesters. They can’t have a true discourse. They instead try to limit someone else, because that person does not agree with the narrow view that they themselves believe. In this country, we are allowed by our laws and constitution to have freedom of thought. Those that try and limit this, are trying to impose thier world view on others. Something that was done by every major and minor “religeon” in the world (even athiesim JC, as you are so clearly against the thought that someone that has any intelligence could believe in something other then evolution, you have attacked every believer in the forum with the epitaph of stupid or “sheep”.) So, if we are going to try and see the end of the types of demonstrations that were done at Emory, we have a need to look at ourselves very carefully, and change our own actions.

• 113 Psyclone // Oct 31, 2007 at 3:40 am

  I think the most humorous aspects of this otherwise disgustingly pathetic protest are the Arab-looking chick with the “peace sign” T-shirt and the fat, grey-haired lesbian with the jumbo-sized T-shirt comparing Iraq to Vietnam!! Classic!!

• 114 Simple Soul // Oct 31, 2007 at 5:06 am

  Raised Eyebrow said:

  “Disdain for belief, of any kind, is just a way to make yourself feel like you are better then your fellow man.”

  What a great quote!
  Thank you for raising the elevation of this discusion to the height of reason. We are all of the same species, sharing the same planet. We share, thereby, certain unalieanable rights: The right to live, to think, to believe, to speak, and to feel any way we choose. We do not have the right to take those rights from others. I agree that there should not be disdain for others’ beliefs. I do believe we should all have disdain for actions that forcibly take those rights from others. Whenever that happens it is our responsibility as fellow human beings to stand up and protect those rights - using whatever language they will understand. When verbal appeals do not work then we must, unfortunatley, use their own language of force (the minimal necessary to protect those rights).

  This applies to individuals (the serial killer), families (parents truly abusing children), assemblies (rioters), religions (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, have all taken their turn), governments ( Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam Husein, etc.,and now the Iranian dude). Even some of our own politicians would force us to give up our rights. Thanks to our Founding Fathers, and the God that they say inspired them, it is built into our system to enable us to remove them from power peaceably - if we will. Some nations don’t have it that easy and revolution is the only way - and outside support may be needed (As we had during our Revolution).

  Thank you Raised Eyebrows and all who sacrifice their own freedoms and perform the un-enviable task of enforcing and thereby ensuring and protecting our rights, both at-large in the world and patrolling the streets of our neighborhoods. Thank you from me and my children who enjoy those rights because of those who have stood up over the years to the Anarchists, the killers, and the would be controllers over the souls of mankind.

  I believe that the days of the Boomers, X and Y generations’ self indulgence in those rights is at an end. The time seems upon us (as has occurred in previous generations) that we need to stand up for our rights or lose them. And if so, we deserve to.

• 115 Simple Soul // Oct 31, 2007 at 5:11 am

  I mean: if not, we deserve to.

• 116 Thomas // Oct 31, 2007 at 8:39 am

  I would just like to say that I have an eight year old daughter and if the schools in the future are anything like they are at this moment in time I would not give one penny for her to get an education at any of them. I would also like to state that if I found out that she was as disrespectful as these students and so called adults were I would pull her out of that school and tell her if she wanted to get that kind of education then she would have to find a way to pay for it herself. I think its funny that people like the ones chanting there say they want to be shown respect but are unwilling to show it to others.

• 117 Office Of The President // Oct 31, 2007 at 8:41 am

  I would like to address the class at this point to say that this forum has already surpassed my wildest expectations.

  Watching this passionate debate about religion and freedom of speech unfold, unencumbered by the shackles of political correctness is both refreshing and gratifying.

  Wouldn’t it be great if this type of conversation could take place on our college campuses? Now I am not so arrogant to think that these debates aren’t actually taking place all of the time, but I know through personal experience, as well as anecdotally that taking part in such discussions, especially in the classroom, increasingly takes more and more courage on behalf of the holder of the minority opinion. Sad. May that never be the case here at IU. Long live IU!

  I also would like to point out that the whole world might be a much better place if Muslims could find their way to this type of debate, without whining about victimization or oppression as a result of simple and deserved criticism (thoroughly on display during IFAW). Or resorting to chopping people’s heads off, or blowing up busses or cafes or buildings, or tacitly supporting/apologizing for the islamists that do because we all have to understand how oppressed they are by those evil occupying jews and their American colonial enablers. In fact if that were the case, perhaps there would be no need for Incorrect University.

  Keep up the good work students. You are all getting extra credit for staying after class and taking part in this project.

  Also, we here at IU are not above brown nosing, so if anyone would like to volunteer to clean the chalk boards, there will be extra credit offered for that as well.

  This has been your president.

• 118 JC // Oct 31, 2007 at 8:46 am

  One last thing, although I agree whole heartedly with raised eyebrow on every aspect of this phrase:
  “Disdain for belief, of any kind, is just a way to make yourself feel like you are better then your fellow man.”

  I guess in some sense I am trying to justify what I believe, in doing so I may or may not seem elitist. I am currently engaged to a very wonderful woman, she is a very devout christian as well as the rest of her family. Her uncle is a pastor of a very popular church in Dallas, Tx. She wanted to be married by her uncle, unfortunantly he will not marry us because of my belief or lack there of. In many ways this puts me on the defensive both for my right to believe what I want to believe and the right to not be harassed. We have been put through what I consider embarrasment because of this. I personally have disdain for the man because he calls himself a man of god, a servant if you will. Well he lives in a mansion of a house and drives a hummer to “work” and he feels he “deserves” all of this by doing gods work.

  I may come off as “wanting to be better than my fellow man” but the truth is, when you are heavily out numbered, sometimes the defensive is the only position to take.

  I will say this though, as an “athiest” I accept all peoples beliefs, I wont raise a hand against the things that you believe as long as, and this is imperative, you dont raise a hand against mine. Its not an eye for an eye as most of you are assuming, its more of a right to defend ones self against the oppresive nature that religious followers put upon those “athiests”.

  Previous poster Brett said this:
  “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” Aristotle

  I would like to add to this or revise it,

  ” It is the mark of a good human being to have compassion and love for all things in this world without having to be told to do so.”

  My apologies for calling religious believers sheep/stupid. It doesnt take intellegence or lack there of to be religious.

  Anyone else thing that “athiest” as a word comes across a little demeaning and segregational?

  No one ever commented on the fact that yusef and jackie said the same thing in almost the same way.

• 119 Kitty // Oct 31, 2007 at 12:50 pm

  A sixteen year old, mentally handicapped girl was stoned to death because a grown man claimed he HAD to have sex with her, because she “came onto him.” ONLY IN IRAN! You guys keep protesting and supporting the TERRORISTS! Maybe someday we will have that happening in our own country!

• 120 Jerry // Oct 31, 2007 at 12:59 pm

  thanks Technician,
  That answer is right up my alley, so to speak. I really like that. That’s exactly what I am doing.
  I too see Huckabee right now as the one to vote for but I am still praying and seeking God for advice.

• 121 Jackie // Oct 31, 2007 at 1:03 pm

  GS, I diddo that whole message.
  Praise God.

• 122 Jackie // Oct 31, 2007 at 1:06 pm

  Raised Eyebrow,
  We are just stating our opinion as JC is.
  I just hate to see anyone not believing in GOd because it is going to be terrible for anyone who does not believe. I hate to think of anyone having to go through the punishment of the almighty God when that time comes. In that day it’s gonna be bad. F-O-R-E-V-E-R…………. No end to the pain. No end to the fire.

• 123 GS // Oct 31, 2007 at 2:27 pm

  The Bible tells us that we will become weaker and wiser. I hope some of this stuff sounds familiar to someone. We have become very weak when it comes to our spiritual needs and concerns, and it would appear on the outside our nation has become spiritually bankrupt. On the other hand, (remember the part about the knowledge explosion), as we have become more and more educated, wiser , we have strayed away the very fundamentals on which this great nation was founded, FAITH. If you research history, please do it yourself, you will find that every nation on earth that has turned its back on God has paid a HEAVY price for doing so. I know some will find a more secular reason or excuse for what happened, but the bottom line is, it happened. Here is another quote from the Bible, towards the last days you won’t be able to tell one season from another, I believe they call that global warming in today’s headlines. The only thing is the Bible spoke of this thousands of years ago. Again, prophecy is the key to understanding the current world events.

  Here is a bit of history for you to consider. In the late 19th century until the late 1940’s a man from Great Britian by the name of Crowley has had an enourmous impact on what is going on in the world today. I believe the man’s first name was Alistar but I could be mistaken. In any event this man was voted as the most wicked man alive on the face of the earth during his lifetime. This man stated that he wanted to be Satan’s right arm and he would do anything to obtain that position. He was reported to have committed numerous murders, some as human sacrifices, rapes, sodomy on little boys and other despicable acts. This man had gathered a following of people for the sole purpose of exterminating Christianity from the face of the earth. This man realized that the family was the fiber that held the country and Christianity together, so he tried to devise a method to destroy the family, he has made significant success years after he has died. His method was to find a way to control the minds of the children in which they would question everything and everybody in authority and look for alternative ways. This is the man responsible for, have you heard this phrase, do your own thing. In other words he and his followers were brain washing the children to do whatever they wanted to, because there was no real repercussions to their actions. Seems like I have heard a story similiar to that, like how a serpent told a woman to eat a piece of fruit and there would be no repercussions. This man had an ingenuous idea that one way to control the minds of the children was through the genre of music. To say the least this idea caught on like wildfire. There is a videotape out there, I believe you can find it at a sight called (Cross TV) the video is called “They sold their souls for rock and roll”. If you haven’t seen this video, PLEASE DO, it will absolutely shock your socks off. This video shows how some of Crowley’s followers put his plan into action. This video names people and has interviews with some of the people, and some of them will shock you with their own admission that they indeed were trying to corrupt the children. Just to name a few of Crowley’s followers, Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin, he bought Crowley’s house, Ozzie Osborne who even sang a song about Mr. Crowley, John Lennon and many, many more. Like I said, this tape is a must see, and a real eye opener.

• 124 Jackie // Oct 31, 2007 at 2:52 pm

  Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe. Everyone has a right to his own opinion. Everyone has a right to speak his or her peace, whatever that may be and if I don’t like it then I won’t listen. If a TV show offends me, I turn the channel. I don’t read a book that would offend me.
  If the students didn’t like what Horowitz was saying they should have gotten up and left. He had every right to speak what he felt.
  When a Christian speaks his/her heart it means they care for others and it breaks their heart to think that that person might go to Hell. We as Christians want to help, not hurt. We definitely do not want to kill. We want to save a life. That’s why we speak about our Lord. We want everyone to have him but it is your choice. God doesn’t or has never forced himself upon anyone. Neither does a true Christian. We speak and give you the right to believe or disbelieve.

• 125 Technician // Oct 31, 2007 at 3:53 pm

  I’d like to point something out that I’ve noticed in this forum. Everyone should know two things by now, one that I’m a Christian, and two, that I’m not always as tactful as I should be. So basically, I’m not a perfect little toy soldier for God, like most people think Christians should be. But is anyone? Here’s a radical notion. What if we could NEVER have lived under the Law? What if not ONE MAN could be perfect and without fault so that under the contract God signed with His own hand would be fulfilled, allowing entrance into Heaven? Wait! That’s heresy! Uh.. no. That’s fact. That’s why Muslims are blowing themselves up every day. They KNOW they’re damned because they can’t live up to their Sharia Law. But what if nobody had to live up to the Law? What if somebody already paid the price for our chronic screwups? And what if by believing in his death, burial, and resurrection, we don’t have to labor to be good, but instead just rest in the knowledge that it is DONE? That suddenly changes everything! Then there IS no fear! There is no threat of Hell. There is no nagging worry that you can’t provide for your family, or that terrorists will kill you, because YOU KNOW somebody’s got your back!

  I see many Christians in this forum who preach of Hellfire and brimstone for all who don’t come to Christ, especially the Muslims who believe in Sharia Law—moderates or not. Jesus had words to say about people who screamed dire warnings and were quick to condemn like that. He called them sons of vipers and said their throats were like open graves. Instead, he advocated LOVING without judgments or conditions, without warnings, and without browbeating. We all know there is a Hell, alright? We all know that to deny Christ is a sentence of eternal separation from God, but do we have to scream it out to people just because they can’t receive it? Christianity has a bad rap for just that reason. Remember what Jesus said. ‘My final command is that you love one another. You will be known as my disciples by your love.’ It amazes me that Jesus never preached Hellfire unless he was talking to people who KNEW the truth and claimed to believe, but did not live that truth. It also amazes me that he taught about the LOVE of God far more, and of God’s forgiveness, kindness, mercy, joy, peace, healing, and grace. Why then have so many become like the teachers of the Law that Jesus so harshly criticized? Islam teaches conversion through fear, and that faith does not allow true intimacy with God. Do we honestly think we can win anybody ESPECIALLY Muslims by using fear tactics? Their LIVES are rooted in fear! It is enough in ALL cases to simply love and respect, and when the time comes, to speak the love of God and to preach the Gospel. But not before, and certainly not to condemn. Remember that Jesus rebuked his disciples because they boasted that they CHOSE to follow him. He said, ‘do not think yourselves great because you chose to follow me. None of you come unless he is called by the Father.’ Do you know what that means? A lot of people don’t, and continue to use fear and browbeat people into getting saved, which gives us a reputation of being bullies. Its meaning is simple. If GOD wants somebody to come to Christ, then HE draws them! HE not us! This was said 2,000 years ago to allow people to be called according to God’s will, and for others who reject that truth to walk away by their own choice. What happens to them is their choice and their own fault, and though as the body of Christ, we hurt for them, we have no right to condemn them.

• 126 Raised Eyebrow // Oct 31, 2007 at 10:08 pm

  There is something else to consider, that actually helps the point that Technician just made. Or it could be considered blasphemy by a large number of Christians. That is that we have no right to condemn someone because they don’t believe in Christ. According to the bible, as well as many of the other teachings out there, only one person can make the judgement that a person will not be allowed to enter into “Gods Kingdom”. That is God. As such, no-one can make the choice that someone is going to “hell”. For that matter, we aren’t even given the right to judge anothers thoughts on what they believe. Instead, all have been instructed to place the information out there, and be ready in case someone comes of thier own volition.

  Also, according to the teaching of the Christian belief, there is only one sin that is un-pardonable. That is the denyal of the “holy spirit”. However, that denyal can only come with a firm knowledge of the truthfullness of “Christianity”. I don’t know about you, but I have never met someone that has been sure in thier knowledge of Christ and God. Instead, we have belief, or faith. This isn’t the same as a sure knowledge. And without a sure knowledge, there can be no denyal. Instead, there is insecurity, questioning, and even outright derision.

  I would submit that a just and loving “god”, would be unable to send someone to this “hell” place, unless they had a complete understanding of the “truth” about the way the spiritual world operates. For those that see JC as “going to hell”, I feel I would need to point out that there is no way that someone that has never truly had the opportunity to have his faith kindled, let alone tested, would be condemned by a just “god”. Instead, he would be placed into a position to learn, and given all the chances that come with that. After he would have the opportunity to “find the truth”, would he then either accept or reject the teachings. This also holds for the other religeons in the world. There is a reason that the term “Hate the Sin, but Love the Sinner” was coined.

  JC has had a very harsh showing of what a supposed “Christian” can do when he lets his predujice and bigotry place him above someone else. He shouldn’t be on trial from someone because that someone went to school to learn how to believe. Instead, that person is missing a golden opportunity to help JC, to see that true “Christianity” will allow him to believe how he wishes, but be there if and when JC may feel that something may be “missing” from his life. I know that “Christians”, are supposed to extend the olive branch to those that are out there, but be careful you aren’t beating the person you are trying to help.

  JC. I feel I should point out though, that the concept of marraige, is a religeous observance. It was not started by secular authority. It was instead started by people that believed they were going before there god, and making a covenant to always stay with that one person, or in some religeons, more then one person. I guess you could say that it was a form of ownership for some, though others consider it to be the highest form of expression of the love they have for another. So, religeon, is just another form of power. It can be used for good or ill, it isn’t itself inherently one or the other. The Islamic Fanatics that believe that it is right to strap a bomb to thier chest and try to hurt people they don’t even know, are doing it at the behest of those that have convinced that thier religeon demands it of them. However, there are those that go out and bring food, water, medicine, what have you, to those that need it because THIER belief says that these are the things that they should do.

  So, in closing, I would say that you should always keep an open mind to the beliefs of those around you. Even if you don’t desire to believe, there is nothing to say that you can’t learn something by observing the actions and “faiths” of others. And, if we can all do this, then the protesters that would try and shout down the people that would speak thier belief’s, will only find they have created someone that will shy away from the hate they spout. Not be drawn to it.

• 127 Jackie // Nov 1, 2007 at 12:55 pm

  Raised Eyebrow,
  The Bible gives manys scriptures that tell who will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

  No, we are not to judge but the Bible says that we will know them by their fruit as we know a tree by what fruit it produces.

  As far as denial of the Holy Spirit and knowledge. God tells us in his word that ignorance is no excuse.

  God never sent anyone to Hell. They choose to go themselves by not following his sacrifice and that is his son Jesus.

  God gives us his word so that we can have a complete understanding of truth. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No man commeth unto the father but by me.”
  When we accept Jesus and that he is God’s only begotten Son. That he lived, died and rose again and spilt his blood for our sins, then He, God, gives us his Holy Spirit as a guide, a teacher, a leader in how we should live our lives.

  He, man, IS placed in a position to learn. What do you think he gave us the Bible and His Holy Spirit for? When man chooses not to learn it is not God’s fault. He gives everyone a chance.

  I have studied all other religions. Christianity is the ONLY one for me. Jesus is the only way. How do I know? Because the Bible tells me so….

• 128 Jerry // Nov 1, 2007 at 12:59 pm

  Technician,
  Did you see O’reily last night? I was really disappointed in Mike Huckabee. O’reily asked him several questions about his faith. He bearly answered them.
  One was, “would you tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to get to heaven?”
  Huckabee, “I believe Jesus is the only way to get to heaven, but if someone else can find another way, I guess that would be ok.”
  He wouldn’t stand up for his religion or Jesus. He doodled around the questions that O’reily asked him
  My mind has been changed about Huckabee. If he cant stand up for his christian morals on O’reily, he sure won’t stand up in the white house.

• 129 Technician // Nov 1, 2007 at 7:46 pm

  Jerry,

  I did not see O’reily last night, so I cannot effectively argue for or against your statements, but I can say this. Huckabee did make a mistake when he acknowledged the ‘possibility’ of other ways to go to heaven, but there are several ways to look at that statement. There is obviously the political nature of it, being that he was firm in his own convictions, but invited anybody to look for another way if one existed, so that he could not be perceived as being against other faiths. It was a shrewd political maneuver, which puts others on the defensive as to their own affiliations, while appearing to remain true to his own faith. In reality, he can either believe Christ is the truth the life and the way, and there is no other way to God, or he merely professes a Christian faith for political gain and used clever wordplay to counter a difficult question. Now the second possibility for Huckabee’s answer is no less ingenious. He may have such a firm conviction in the truth of Scripture that he doesn’t care if anyone else tries to look for another way to heaven, because he knows there is no other way. However, considering the seemingly vague way he answered the question, Christians’ faith in him as a candidate has been shaken. Does this mean he is not the right man for the job? I don’t know. The simple truth of the matter is, nobody knows yet. As Christians, we must be led by the Holy Spirit in all aspects of our lives, especially in such things that are so important in giving to ‘Caeser’. We are to serve our leaders as we serve God, and this is a good way to do that. Keep praying, cat, and the Father will lead us all in the right way to vote, no matter what it may be.

• 130 robertson29488 // Nov 1, 2007 at 9:20 pm

  This is what’s wrong with most of you. You sit there and rant and rave back and forth calling each others names. What does that prove? NOTHING!!! Just that you are not sensible reasonable people that can try to come together to make some kind of comprimise. I don’t who these people were creating the horrific disruption, where they were white, catholic, chrisitian, non-christian, muslism, etc, it doesn’t matter. Regardless of what race, ethnic background or religion background, they were completely wrong!!!!! Wake up America!

• 131 Technician // Nov 2, 2007 at 1:02 am

  robertson29488,

  We are far beyond calling people names here. Tempers have cooled quite considerably since the incident took place, and while I agree with you that that immature and petty attitude goes nowhere, you’re reacting to what was said days ago. Since we’ve all calmed down enough to think rationally, we have all contributed valid points and had respectable debates on this post, and though many of us are quite passionate about our views, we restrain ourselves for the most part. Please calm down sir, and become a part of something that will leave us all wiser.

• 132 Jerry // Nov 2, 2007 at 12:27 pm

  yes, you are right Technician. I will continue to pray that God would lead me in the right way to know who to vote for.

  Robertson, I feel the ones creating the disturbance was wrong also. But sometimes it takes time to cool down and get ourselves together to make a rational statement.

  Emotions were running high after it happened.
  Just as your emotions were running pretty high as you made your first statement here.
  God bless!

• 133 Jenny // Nov 2, 2007 at 1:12 pm

  America better wake up - we are losing our country to political correctness (a communist term). Tolerance is good, but not to the detriment of the Christian values that this country was founded on. If you can’t respect that just leave.

• 134 Jerry // Nov 2, 2007 at 3:44 pm

  Jenny,
  We are fighting each other. I can see it every day. You are right. America better wake up.
  We need to stand up for what we believe or we are going down. We won’t need the terrorists to get us, we will destroy each other if we don’t wake up.

• 135 Mr BS Stopper // Nov 7, 2007 at 6:11 am

  The web is meant to promote & discuss the truth. UNFORTUNATELY the people whom wish to complicate the issues & slow down the discovery of the truth & resolution to this problem are winning the war.
  There is so much deflection, deception & political posturing on this issue that it would take the average person “whom has no experience with this issue” many hours to figure out the truth. So, apparently the factors whom want to confuse things need a standing ovation.

  Please use my suggestions:
  A) The people whom run this blog: Are you trying to get things understood? Trust me - this blog is destroyed by your enemies. Because as it is now it takes an average web user hours to attempt understanding exactly what is going wrong here. THE TRUTH IS NOT BEING PROMOTED OR UNDERSTOOD “easily”. There is no transparency.
  The problem “from an outsider’s point of view” the platform is not up correctly to promote outsiders to understand or interact.
  B) MAY I SUGGEST: A limit of the text & discussion to just the leaders or representatives of each group. One statement of 500 or 1,000 words would suffice. UNLESS you are satisfied with the many different types of statements made which is confusing to the average web viewer.

  God Bless America
  MrBSstopper

• 136 Mohammed // Nov 7, 2007 at 5:05 pm

  I bet they would let Hitler speak WITHOUT TURNING THEIR BACKS. The “peace” people are so brain dead by all the drugs they take they don’t know who or what they stand for or against. PEACE BE WITH THEM
  Muslims would certainly be the first to cut their heads off THE LONG HAIRED, UNSHAVED ARMPITS, HUG A TREE, LET THE ENEMIES SHOVE THEIR *** UP YOUR *SS they are stupid infidels who can be easily BEHEADED.
  ALLAH AKBAR
  JIHAD IS COMING FOR YOU

• 137 Kim // Nov 9, 2007 at 11:32 am

  I think it would have been GREAT if the people who wanted to hear his speech all got up and walked to the front. (Especially if no one can accept a cop or guard escorting them out of there). This whole situation can be analyzed to death but if I was there and wanted to hear him I would have been pissed that these people did that. I get “free speech” but that doesn’t mean you take away my right to hear what the man has to say. Especially if I am paying to be there at that school! They could have just turned their backs on him and walked out but all the shouting and disruption would have made me want to go up front! In that situation I hope I would have done that and convinced others along with me.

• 138 Jerry // Nov 9, 2007 at 12:45 pm

  Too much Hate, all over. Just read these posts.
  The people who created the uproar and wouldn’t let the man speak are full of hate. They probably don’t even like themselves.
  Hate is from the devil. Love is from God.
  You choose.

• 139 just asking // Nov 9, 2007 at 4:21 pm

  Those that messed up the man’s speech should be kicked out of school and or arrested. OK, we get it. We all agree and that is a great thing but this religion offshoot in this discussion keeps popping up and I have a question about it for one of the christians out there. I myself am still on the fence about the whole thing because of one question that nobody has ever given me a good answer for. That is… why would a supreme being create this earth, put people on it then sit back sit back and watch the fireworks while all along having the grand plan to have it all fall to pieces and then send those that didn’t live up to his standards spend the rest of eternity in a place like hell? Why do such a thing? Is it a form of entertainment for him (or her, them, it, whatever is correct). Is it a test, only those that pass get to live in heaven with him? If so why not just create the good kind he wants around to start with and bypass all the crap in between?
  I look forward to someone giving me a good answer.

  And by the way, much love and thanks to all in uniform fighting for our freedom.

• 140 Raised Eyebrow // Nov 12, 2007 at 2:22 am

  Just Asking.

  I will kind of spell it out as Traditional Christian attitudes, and more “latter day” ideals.

  TRADITIONAL: God is this being out there that is a part of everything, but also nothing. He see’s us as we are, and judges what he created and leaves it at that. In other words, God would be a being that either wants only some to measure up, or he is inept and can’t make but one perfect being, which was actually himself. That being the case, it doesn’t paint such a great picture of this God person, as he is either a masochist, or a complete idiot.

  LATTER DAY: God creates us as we would have a child. In other words, he has many children, and we are them. Now, he wants us to see what we can accomplish, so he set us in this world, and let us have this very terrible but precious gift, called free choice. In this, we will actually find out the type of person we are, or maybe learn a lesson that we couldn’t learn in a perfect place. In other words, strength through adversity. In this way, we will have the chance to make decissions, and determine wether we have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing, or not. This would mean that the Earth as we know it is actually a giant school, and we are the students taking tests all the time.

  TRADITIONAL: We just need to believe in God, and he will take care of all our woe’s. Just prey to the Diety of your choice, and all the bad things you do will be forgiven. This type of thought is known as “Once Saved, Always Saved”.

  LATTER DAY: The thought is that we need to show our belief through our lives. We need to believe in God, but continue our lives like we are the ones that are going to do most of the grunt work, as God wants us to test ourselves, and continually want to better ourselves. This is known as the “By Thier Fruits, Ye Shall Know Them” trademark. Unfortunatly, this also means that people can get so caught up in the small points, they forget that the very loud minority will drown out the mostly silent majority. In other words, people hear “Muslim”, and they think of people out there with bombs strapped to thier chests blowing up people in the street. So, the people that have the LATER DAY belief needs to remember that there are always those out there that DON’T exemplify the religeon they spout. A good example of this is the “Mormons” that say they are allowed to have multiple wives due to thier religeon. If you do an actual study, there are no true members of that faith that have a plural marraige. Only splinter groups that profess the religeon.

  TRADITIONAL: God Created us perfect, and we fell from grace, because Eve took a bite of the ole apple. So, everyone is born responsible for the original “sin” that Eve did by taking the bite. As such, you need to go out there and prey and hope that you can gain that forgiveness for something you had no control over, nor could have stopped anyway. (This has been the rallying cry to persecute women for centuries, by the way.)

  LATTER DAY: If we were supposed to be perfect, then we would BE perfect. If Gods plan was that we were supposed to be perfect, and we aren’t because Eve took a bite from a piece of fruit, then God is once again, either inept, or not all knowing. Because if we were supposed to be perfect, then Satan beat God. Which would make God, not God.

  The main point I am trying to make, is that there are many different views of God. Some see him as a vengeful bastard out for blood. Some feel he is a loving father that knows that sometimes the only way to let a child learn not to touch the stove, is to let him get burned. But in the end, there is only one thing that seems to be the biggest “truth” for all involved. And that is that you will have to find your own way to him, or not. But you are the one that needs to make the effort. Not because he can’t be bothered, but because you will have more belief, or faith, in the answer if you find it yourself.

  Christians are supposed to be people that are there willing to give you what knowledge they have found. They are not supposed to try to force thier world views on you.

  Oh. One last point. This is for Jackie. How can you believe that someone that has never had the chance to learn, not have an excuse, at least till that person DOES have a chance? Do you realize that almost half the world, either hasn’t heard the name Jesus Christ, or if they did, the reference was not that he was the “Son of God”, but instead a good man/prophet? Everyone from Jewish people, to Muslims that have never known anything different, to those that have been worshipping trees and spirits in the interier of South America? WILLFULL ignorance, I can see. Someone not bothering to find out if something they have heard, or even had occasion to find out is true, could be seen as having the chance to learn, but turning away. But someone that hasn’t had the opportunity being judged unworthy? If that is your God, I wouldn’t want him either. I would leave him to you, and look for one that was more just, and had some basic emotions that would allow someone the opportunity to make mistakes and come back from them both stronger, and wiser.

• 141 Jackie // Nov 12, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  The Bible says that the gospel must first be preached to ALL the world and then the end will come.
  Everyone will have a chance whether they accept Him or not.

• 142 Jackie // Nov 13, 2007 at 6:34 pm

  Latter Day,
  The Bible plainly says that if a person doesn’t know it is sin, then he will not be held accountable.
  In other words, if a child dies, he doesn’t know sin. An afflicted or mentally handicapped person doesn’t know sin.
  But to him who knows and still does the sin, he will be held accountable.
  There are plenty of people who have died and never heard the name Jesus. How can they be held accountable when they never knew? They will not.
  When I say the bible says that ignorance is no excuse, I mean a person who uses any means to get out of admitting that he just didn’t listen. It was there, all over TV all over the radio, in newspapers, churches all over the place.
  There are not many places in the world today that hasn’t heard the gospel. But, the bible does say that the gospel must be preached all over the world before the end. Now that’s not meaning when Jesus comes back in the eastern sky and the sky will roll back as a scroll, to call his people who have trusted in him to come up to be with him. This means when Jesus comes back to put his feet back on this earth, after the tribulation, and starts the 1000 year millienum.
  Even the angels will be shouting and flying overhead during the tribulation telling people not to take the mark of the beast which is 666. If you take the mark you will be doomed forever and cast into hell with satan. If you don’t take it you could get your head chopped off but you will be with God in the end. During that time you will have to endure until the end.
  People will try to explain away the coming of Jesus by saying that a UFO came and got the people who are missing. They will try to say anything but the truth. Jesus is coming back soon to gather his children. I hope you will be one of them and not get left behind.

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